okay Shall I sit down here?
[KEYS LANDING] Ooop, missed.
Crystals?
So yeah, if you're able to... talk aboutviagra?
No.
[LAUGHTER] Good evening and expenses, if you can put this on?
What do I do?
That - good isn't it.
How did it do that?
Looks like you sneezed down yourself.
Erm, yes so erm, I thought cuz cuz my kids are gonna ask me all these questions about
you as a taxi driver in the 60s I won't be able to answer any of it because I'll probably
have alzheimersmyself and er... but it's just sort of stuff that I didn't know about you
know what it was like becoming a London taxi driver in the in the 60s so all I know is
that you would you were driving already yes
because you were a you drove for a film company - the Italian -
What it was, we'd drive like an 8 seater - no 12 seater van - or a Volkswagen, you could
open that you know open the sides up and you could put all the sound gear for whatever
all the camera gear there and you know these film companies just hire stuff out almost
pointless them buying a van or something like Italian television coming over here and just
hire for three or four days
Then you were at a unit driver yeah for other film companies
yeah and we used to move Movieolas or something like that to drive down Dean Street pick these
things up and deliver to companies all over London But something that was ideal because
some days you were sort of lean, you didn't have any work so it could take your moped
and go and see all points to set rules of London
That's when you're doing the knowledge?
That's doing the knowledge yes and its very very helpful because you doing usually doing
deliveries all over London that you certainly started to know your way around you didn't
know the names of the roads but once you're doing the knowledge you could sort of pick
the names up and you could picture yourself going along it was only eighteen months
so when you were...
you were driving already and then you you got the idea to get a taxi license
yes because I was always skint and I never had any money and I think for two Christmases
you know you just didn't have any money in your pocket, and it was horrible feeling so
you think well if I had a taxi license at least I can go to work and earn some money
and it'd keep me out of the pub!
And when - do you remember what year this was roughly?
yes it was about the third or fourth of January 1967 I went along to the Carriage Office and
signed up and you get a pep talk and the fella says ninety percent of you will fall out of
it.
I think he was right And you - so you like sign up, and then do
they do they give you a book Yes, it's called a Blue Book which is white
and had about 300 different runs that you do like Manor House Station to Thornberry
Square, and you just got to... well you just do it's easy
way of doing it And in the book do they list all of the streets
and basically you've got a look up all of the places of interest
hospitals, police stations, anything that's of interest to London.
And erm, how long, can you remember roughly how long they give you to your first... because
your interviews called Appearances yes
Do you remember how long it was to your first appearance
yeah in those days it because they were short of drive cab drivers it was 28 days Right...
I think nowadays is 56 days or even longer than that and then they didn't really nobody
knew how it worked, but this all worked out if you did a run more or less
spot on you got two points if you coughed it and spluttered your way
through you go one point I think when you got 18 points or 20 points
they put you down to fortnights.
Right 22 points overall or 20 points in one appearance?
No more or less I don't think they would let you do it
in less than 18 months Oh, right so on each appearance could they
ask you anything from the 300 Anything.
[LAUGH] And anything.
My favourite one was they asked you for the Institute of meat to the Institute of Management
and it just fascinated me this one it was - the Institute of Meat was in Bristol House
and you used to have to get your bike, and look at all the names in there.
And the Institute of Management used to be behind Holborn police station
it's just a short run but I did it just fascinated me the er...
It's 50 years on and you still remember that that's why I don't get--
whenever you say - you - because you don't talk much about the famous people you've
been in the cab, but whenever you do so like ABBA in
the 70s you remember the run that you know It's just strange these things stick in your
mind What were the appearances like?
What were they- Terrifying Yeah cuz Mum said you used to be like really
like properly ill.
oh yeah I couldn't drink a cup of tea but if my...
If I was having a cup of tea before I went up there I used to throw it up.
And what would calm me was I would walk down from Harmood Street to the Carriage Office
up the Angel and often that helped, but everybody was all the
same there was all sitting there, petrified I don't know why - it's a form of stage fright
I suppose, because you know -- you don't know what they're going to ask you and if you're
doing it part-time and you need the money, you just want to pass out.
Actually if you get there and sit down and you just want to say no no no no I don't know
it I don't know it and get out.
But they were there to test your temperament you know one fellow if you went in there Mr.
Findlay and you had to stand there and wait till he told you to sit down - if you sit
down he wouldn't mark you, you'd have to come back in a month's time.
No - so they could bump you out that quickly!
Oh yeah!
But it was all designed to wind you up.
Yes.
You couldn't call what was it, the QV the Queen Victoria Memorial outside Buckingham
Palace - it's nickname was was the wedding cake - but no way would you be allowed to
call it a wedding cake.
Or the other story was even if you get to Tower Bridge and the fella said "keep on"
well the fella said that Tower Bridge is up, and of course that didn't go down very well.
Did they do it to you?
Er no.
Or you just heard about it.
Oh yes.
I was so petrified...
I think I'd be frightened to-- Yeah, and when you were learning the the knowledge
were you on a moped or a bike?
A moped with no crash helmet.
Like a Delboy cheesecutter (hat) you had on, it was part of the uniform.
And what like a clipboard on the front?
Yes.
And would you write the stuff out before you went out or
would you like tear pages out of the book?
No no you just write - usually if there was four runs you could stomach that - or get
it in your head - if you went any more than that it was too much and the run was more
or less all the roads you went through I mean I like a fella finished the knowledge and
he gave me all all the runs.
And then some you could easy top of your head some on you stumbled and some you couldn't
remember at all mine was all over South London - and I had
like three piles - the easy ones - not so easy ones and the
hard ones and you used to call it over with you girlfriend - I used to call it over with
Vera, my wife.
So then - what you've have them written out Yes each road.
And if like I don't know is this how you used to say it - "Forward down Agar Grove, left
into York Way..." yeah and like "comply roundabout" yeah, "leave by..."
I think so long as you knew which way you were going I think they fell asleep
So you started the knowledge and then you had some appearances at 28 days?
Yes.
And then you got the points that you needed to bring it down to what every 14 days?
Yes and usually had two appearances of that and what did they do - once you've passed
that, they give you your "rec".
But then you do the suburbs afterwards?
Yes and a couple of appearances, you know, can't think of it, I hated it...
Like Camden Town going to Barnet or something like that
Yeah.
And you had to know all the street names in...
Well roughly yeah, it was a lot big big names you know like Marble Arch to Edgware - well
that was Edgware Road - and then about two other roads and then that was it, you were
there.
And you used to call them rhubarbs - or did I imagine that?
No, that's what they call the Hampstead Garden Suburbs.
Hampstead - Garden - Suburb but they used to call that rhubarbs.
But then what happened was it was there one appearance where you knew it was the last
one or did they just suddenly turn around and say you've done it
Yes.
So you knew there'd be like one more.
And you knew you'd done it.
And if you blew that one you know there'd be another one - you'd come back in a fortnight's
time Then what happens do they just give you like
a piece of paper then, or...
I think you've got to pay half a crown for your badge or something um pay for the postage
for them to send it to you!
And that's when you get the green badge?
Yes.
No but I've lost - I lost two of them My first one was 12857 that's the one they gave me.
You can still remember it?
Yeah.
Well it's just such an ordeal you go through.
You'd see some fellas when you first went there, they've got nice suits on nice polished
shoes... but after 18 months your suit was polished at the elbows you could see your
shoes worn down and the frayed shirt.
Cos you've got no money So you had to dress up for the appearance
and-- You still do.
If you lost it ever you got to go to a police station and fill out a form.
And then they gave you another sort of form just in case you got stopped by the police
And then once you, once you got your green badge how, how does the taxi work, back then,
did you have to buy it rent it or?
It was called "on the flat" and you had it for a week
I can't remember how much, about 13 pound for the week and you put your own diesel in
or you could have it on what they call "on the clock" on those meters that you do a percentage
you know you give the owner 70% no, 60% you kept 40% and all your tips but usually the
cab went out again on the end of the day or end of the night when you finished.
Either you call half on the flat, you could share it with somebody but that more or less
everybody went on the on the full flat - why they call it that I don't know - then you
could keep it, use it as your own - for your own use as well which is quite handy yeah
and -- where was that in town somewhere?
Yeah it was off of West End Lane - in a garage there.
It's 2 houses now!
Yeah, a luxury block.
But back then it was mechanical meters?
Yeah yeah, and when they put fares up they'd have to - you'd have to drive in wouldn't
you - you'd have to physically...
And have a new meter and sometimes you had to wait for the cab to go to Overhaul because
they just couldn't alter all these mechanical meters at once.
Yeah, there used to be like a...
I remember there used to be like a thing in the back that explained the fares, but there
was another thing for when the fares went up that would convert what's on the meter
with the new...
Oh yeah we used to call them bingo cards And they'd cause more ructions than anything!
People-- Because you'd have to explain that the fare on the meter isn't-
Yes because it's on this big place here... and the more intelligent the people were less
ones that they couldn't work it out yeah yeah funny.
yeah that was the other thing that I remembered the the Overhauls - they sounded just as stressful
as the as the knowledge - because every year it's not like an MOT, it's like a proper they
go through everything don't they - on the taxi.
Yes, you've got to have it steam cleaned... first... and then just everything needed doing
because they could fail you on silly stuff?
Yeah, if the cigarette thing was full up.
Another thing I used to get in a state with with your Mum - the state I used to get in
because it meant you know if your cab had failed, it'd mean another couple of days off
of work.
Sometimes a good thing sometimes it's a bad thing
yeah I thought it was a good thing because it's a bit like your body if something's not
slightly right you let it go it gets worse and worse.
I remember you had the hubcaps - you had a hubcap syndicate
[LAUGH] where you was it you and three mates each owned a brand new hubcap so when one
of you went for overhaul... yeah we have those had yeah we put all the
new hubcaps on it looked nice One garage at the end of the street - a taxi
fleet - he had bumpers - overhaul bumpers - he used to take the bumpers off the taxi
and put these new ones on, and take it up - when it came back, he'd put the old bumpers
on again.
So you were on the flat for a bit - which is like renting a taxi and then what stage
could you buy one?
Well it was - when I'd got the money.
Mine was about nine months - the things they had on the flat in those days, they were just
clapped out - it was horrible to drive - and you know if you take it in the garage, and
get it back for a service - the steering wheel used to be all greasy... the seats used to
- the driver seat used to be greasy...
But with your own one you know you take a bit of pride in it
So how did that feel when you got your first cab then?
Petrified.
Again because you'd just laid out £1250 and you're driving around and -- but after a week,
you was whizzing around like anything Where'd you get them from - was there like
one place that you'd get them from?
Yes - off the Wandsworth Bridge Road.
There was a garage there.
It was only place you could get them yeah I found, I had a manual to start with and
then the gearbox was so hard - you needed to have a divers boot on to change gear.
Get it in gear - 'course they had the monopoly, they couldn't care less!
And was that LUU52P?
No, it was AGP343G.
And what model was it?
What were they called back then?
FX4.
An FX4?
Yes.
And then when when you passed - how did the radio circuits work?
Because could you drive a cab without being on a circuit.
Oh yes.
When I first started, that was you know a self-indulgence.
You know, if you wanted to be, but I wanted to be on the radio because people you know
the minicabs were coming in, and people wanted to pick you up on your door - they didn't
want to stand in the street in the rain and- women complaining about their hair...
And you had - so you had - what 4 radio circuits in London there was Lords...
No, there was two.
Oh two?
To start with.
When I was there.
It was just 2 people who had a row with each other, on one circuit and one went one way
and the other went the other way...
So there was just one radio circuit?
Yes, it started at Levy's you know that big garage at the end of York Way (N1) it was
started there.
Which end of York Way?
As you're just coming from Kings- Euston Road on the right there's a big big place there
I mean yeah I used to call it dieseling up, you know every two
nights you know fill up with diesel I remember, it's like a courtyard it's now
all shops and coffee shops yeah yeah but it used to be like this cobbled
mews, and you'd go in to get your DERV... your diesel...
and you'd give the fella who filled it up a couple of bob and he checked your water
and your battery But they had a radio circuit there - you know
a radio-- Yes.
Because he had some premises there where you went downstairs, and I think this fella Levy
had been to America and seen it and tried to start it up at... there.
But then someone else - I can't remember names of the fellas - took it over and moved up
Pentonville Road and started it there.
So then and was that going before you became a driver you know there was already a radio
circuit yeah yeah and then so then they split yes
but before your time yeah and one was called Mountview and one was called
Lords Yes - that's because that was the phone number
right that's the name of the exchange, in London yeah
So where was Mountview based?
Right at the top of Highgate Hill in one of those flats there.
And Lords was in Pentonville Road.
Right, so when you phone up for a cab you'd either phone that number or your number - Lords
- and and then so then when did you join Lords?
Was that soon after you'd passed?
No, I gave it-- oh... it's 1970...
I think... it was February 1970 Was it easy to join?
Yes in those days - but it was there again it was like the kipper season.
There wasn't much work about - this is why most of the fellas didn't buy their houses
because February was absolutely dead.
There's hardly any work about.
When did they call it the kipper season-- why did they call it the kipper season?
Nobody knows [LAUGHTER] They do not know why.
Is it because you had to eat kippers during that--
I think really, that's the best-- it's all we could put on the table.
You've always said is that the first two groups in London that know what the economy is doing
are the prostitutes and the taxi drivers...
Yeah, and publicans.
Oh that's right, yes.
So then you joined the radio circuit, do they then put a radio in your taxi?
Yes.
I think you had to pay for the fitting.
A-ha.
It was Pye - out as you go up erm, Highgate Hill, it's near your school you go underneath
the bridge (oh gawd I can't remember) or if you came along Gordon House Road turn right,
you've got the pub there and underneath the bridge you had mews'es.
And Pye's place was there.
That's PYE, P-Y-E...
They're like a radio outfit.
Yeah.
And they'd what, like wire up an antenna and...
They'd put something in your boot.
You'd have a big box in your boot.
Oh what, a transmitter?
Yes.
You had a big mouth piece there...
Oh that's right - it's like the McDonald's drive-through (cashiers) microphones.
And when I used to take you to school, you used to hold on to that.
And these days [thinking about it] I just come over cold, because you'd sit there holding
this thing.
[Laughter] Can you imagine doing that [today].
Because I was sat in the front?
There was a partition there.
And you sat on the partition and held this thing.
Oh... you couldn't do that these days.
Mind you, things were a lot slower then.
The cabs were a lot slower!
[Laughter] I have such fond memories... yeah back in
the seventies you could... well you could go anywhere in a car, so you could've been
in the boot.
But in the taxi you could sit in the front in the luggage compartment and I used to love
that!
And yeah, like you say, so you'd have like this armrest... that I'd sit on and hold the
microphone!
Hold the microphone yes.
I'd forgotten that.
Oh I haven't.
[Laughter] No, well, when I think about it these days...
Yeah I s'pose so.
Oh it was fun...
It was fun though, that's living a little isn't it.
So you had a radio fitted.
And the other thing I remember with the radio was that, well there were two things: there
was a secret button.
So basically was like a proper button...
Yes.
So that if... so you were Apple 31?
Yes.
How did you get that number?
No, they just dished out anyone.
You know, you'd join the circuit, and a number was empty and they gave it to you... as someone
might have left the circuit...
Right, so you were A-31.
Yes Apple 3-1.
Which is Apple 31.
And then could you hear other [drivers]?
No.
Oh so you couldn't hear [others].
You could always hear the central control?
Yes.
But you couldn't hear what the other... ...drivers were saying, no.
But you'd hear their call sign?
So they'd call out - I don't know - what would it be...
Charlie 22 or something?
Yes.
"Black 6-5 with the pipe" or something.
"Black 6-5 with the pipe"?
Yeah.
Because he's always smoking a pipe.
So he was called "Black 6-5 with the pipe"?
Well this fella was.
[Laughter] Were there any others?
I can't remember any...
And how would that work?
Would you like start the cab up, and would you let them know that you're that you were
there?
No.
They'd just put out a general call?
Yeah.
But they would say, like, "Agar Grove going to Kings Cross."
And you had a call - an open call, first call...
If you were so many yards on top of it, and then you were a quarter of a mile, then you
were half a mile.
But... you could sort of cheat on it.
But some fellas always got caught - they were giving a false position.
What would happen?
You'd go for a Board of Complaints thing.
And they could've been told off.
Or let off.
Or whatever.
Wow, so it's like a manual Uber, isn't it?
They'd put out a call - pick up from Agar Grove.
And, so the open call is to just see who's there.
Yeah, I can't remember it all...
So you'd go: "Apple 3-1, I'm in..."
St. Paul's Crescent.
Yeah.
And the nearest driver got the job.
But some people had only just come out to do a bit of [work].
So if they'd call like, Agar Grove to Kings Cross - it's a short ride - a lot of people
didn't want to do it.
I used to love doing it.
The smaller ones.
'Cos there'd be like a minimum [fare] on the clock already?
Yeah.
How did you know what to say, did they train you?
Was there like a protocol with what you're supposed to say?
Yes.
Well, you'd just say Apple 31.
Then the dispatcher used to come back to you and say like "where are you?"
And you'd give your position.
Then someone else would come in and they'd give their position.
And you couldn't hear what they were saying anyway.
No.
And he just repeated it - what the other fella had said.
Did you get to know the dispatchers over time?
Not really.
Or recognise them?
Oh you do, but you never sort of met them.
[You] just plodded along.
And they were based in Pentonville Road?
The first, Pentonville Road, and then they moved to Maida Vale.
Right.
Yeah, because it was - the circuit was called "Lords" but the, not the company, the... organisation
was the Owner Driver Taxi...
ODRTS.
The Owner Drivers Radio Taxi Service.
It's a bit of a mouthful.
And then that became "Dial-A-Cab"?
Dial A Cab, that's it.
And what did "Mountview" become?
Were they, did they...?
They became Radio Taxis.
And then, what, "ComputaCab" came along?
Yeah, 'cuz there was so much work, we couldn't cover it.
So then a third circuit came up?
Yes And then THEY couldn't cover it!
So then a fourth one!
Yeah [Laughter].
And then... none of them!
Now they're starting to fold back down again.
Yes.
They're joining up.
But it's modern technology, I mean if we'd all been one circuit, you just couldn't cover
the work.
Yeah.
It's technology that's changed the job.
I mean instead of asking where Apple 31 is, they know where it is because of the - what
do they call it - GPS.
Yeah and then the other thing with the radio was that you had the big button that you'd
press...
Yes.
There was there was, erm, there was a secret button wasn't there, like an emergency button?
That's right.
I think over the years.
I can only remember one incident where one of our cabs... some car wouldn't let him out
of a mews, so he's pressed the button and then all the other cabs go round.
Right, so then in an emergency you'd press this button and it would cut out all the radios,
so you could only hear this one taxi?
It was like an all-points emergency.
I think, no, what the fella said, he'd press the button and they just say "Right, we've
got an emergency, shut your-- all be quiet" and then he could hear what he was saying.
Right, and then the idea was that everyone could go down there to help him.
Yes.
But like you said, that only happened once in like 30 years?!
Yeah, I could only [remember once].
Well [on] the hours that I worked.
But then there was that thing in the 80's, which was that... someone was pressing this
button.
And basically you had your cab fitted with like detection equipment, it was like er...
meter that could measure the strength [of the signal] and you were... they were called
"Rat Catchers"?
Secret Squirrels.
[Laughter] I had "Rat Catcher" in my head.
Okay.
And then what was that about?
Well some fella's got the hump to the circuit.
And instead of getting it ripped out, they would just sit in, and press that button and...
just sing.
Or make a noise.
They just had the hump to the circuit.
Well, it just sort of shows the mentality of some people.
And we used a London Underground map.
You'd find it's A-B-C-D-E-F-G and there was about 4 or 5 of us, and when we were working...
if they said the noise is coming from [nearby we'd mark it down]...
Oh, a fella fitted his cab up - so that he could hear the other drivers and they could
tell which area [the noise came from].
You had a screen, like a meter, in your cab.
And if someone else was misusing/abusing [the radio] your meter would come up.
Yeah, it would measure the signal strength, and then they'd try and hone it down [to where
the noise was coming from].
Did they ever catch him?
No, because I joined when there's more than one.
Then when people started to realise that they're gonna get caught - so they didn't do it so
much Right.
And then account work came in, so that someone could book through the circuit.
And then what, you'd get a statement at the end of the month?
Back then?
Yeah.
When you do a job, say Agar Grove to Euston, it was on a bit of paper.
At the end of the evening, you blew in what was on the meter.
We had so much work, I mean you could fill this room with the bits of paper.
Of course they'd get lost and misplaced.
What and you'd take these bits of paper into the office?
No you had a book, where you'd put every job you did, and then say, once a fortnight, they'd
pay up - you went to Maida Vale where the office was and they'd give you a cheque, for
the work you'd done.
What were your favourite ones?
There was supposed to be - it was true, though I never did him - a Mister, I don't know if
it was Mr Huntley or Mr Palmer - he was, you know going to this... he was connected to
Huntley and Palmer Biscuits (yeah?) and they've just given him a few bob just to get him out
of the way, because he was bit [loopy].
And there was this story that he goes into this hotel in Swiss Cottage, and they wouldn't
give him a room.
So he went back next day and he bought the hotel and gave all of the staff the sack!
But I think that's a bit of a story.
But he used to book - take a taxi on a Friday night to go to Southend or... it was either
from Charing Cross or Fenchurch Street, and you had to wait for him.
And they used to change over - he used to come back, like Sunday night.
But the driver would do 12 hours (waiting), and change over and another cab would do 12
hours, and another cab 12...
And he used to pay it.
You know you'd get paid because he had an A1 account with Coutts (Bank)!
Or he would go out jogging at 3 o'clock, no, 2 o'clock in the morning... then he would
go down to Fleet Street there was an open - a cafe that was open all the time - Johnnies.
And he'd used to fill a vacuum flask with mashed potato or something and eat it in the
back of the cab.
And then you'd take him back to the hotel.
And that was one of Huntley or Palmer?
Yes, I heard about it and it was true.
Where was Johnnies?
In Fleet Street.
I used to eat there with me and my pals after the pub on a Friday night.
Because they worked at the print works?
Was it those mates?
No, it was before that!
Were these other cab driver mates?
No, no, they were just fellas I knew from the pub.
I wonder what's at Johnnies now?
It's probably a Tesco Express or something.
No, I think it's a McDonalds.
Oh I know it, yeah yeah.
It's just somewhere there.
And we used to get a doctor - a retired doctor - who lived just over Battersea Bridge, and
he used to go to the Phene Arms.
Where (George) Best used to go.
And he used to use it 364 days, yeah 364 days a year.
And there was one day missing, it was Christmas Day and he didn't go then because the pub
was shut.
And we used to call it "You-know-who-going-to-you-know-where".
What on the radio?
Yeah, because everybody knew it!
And who was it?
A retired doctor.
And what he'd just always get a cab...
Of a morning... what time would it be about... half one, and then you'd take him back at
three o'clock.
Then he used to go down at half seven, till closing time.
And they used to do that every day of the week.
Oh my - Where did they pick him up from?
Oh I can't think of it.
It was a road off of Prince Of Wales Drive.
Yeah, and he used to go to what the same pub - did you say as George Best?
Yes it was the Phene Arms, that's gone now I think...
P-h-e-n-e I know where it is, I can't think of the name of the street just now.
It was just over Chelsea Bridge, Battersea Bridge.
And as I say, they did it for so long that they said "You-know-who-going-to-you-know-where"
and everybody knew him.
Oh and then we used to have a night dispatcher called Johnny, I can't think of his full name,
erm... he used to live in another posh area, off of Cross Street, and we used to take him
to Maida Vale.
And he used to have a right gruff voice.
And he was a little fella with a dodgy leg - and they used to say "go pick him up", "Yeah,
what's he got?
He's got a bowler hat... he's got an umbrella stuck on his right arm, and underneath the
other arm he's got the Jewish Chronicle."
I remember you telling me that The Good Mixer (in Camden) was called The Good Mixer because...
for a reason...
Yeah, there was a cement (mixer) - one of those things that made cement where you turned
the wheel.
And they'd come out, they did some renovations in the pub and they couldn't get this thing
out!
So they just left it in there!
In the basement?
Yes!
And then they called the pub, The Good Mixer?
Yeah!
When was that, can you remember?
About, this was 1966.
Oh right, because it's quite a famous pub now.
Yeah, if it's still there.
Oh, Johnny Onions.
Johnny Onions?
Yeah, that wasn't his second name, it was 'cuz it was where the cinema was, not - there
used to be a Cinema in Chalk Farm Road - as you come over from Camden High Street - it
might be Camden High Street - there used to be a cinema on the left, and the local fellas
just used to - the stallholders - gave him a couple of sacks of onions to sell.
So Johnny Onions would just sell...
Onions!
He lived in Arlington House, and he was quite happy there.
I often used to drink with him and a few fellas from there and they were petrified of all
these do-gooders from Camden Council wanting to give them flats.
And they said, "you know, we're happy as we are... we don't have to worry about gas bills,
electric bills, or anything like that.
I wish they'd leave us alone!"
Because Arlington House was the house for down-and-outs wasn't it?
Yes.
They probably didn't call it that.
But they had sort of the posh bits where they had their own locker.
And their own bed.
Right, and they were quite happy with that.
Yeah quite happy with it.
And can you remember when you passed your test, your taxi licence test, can you remember
what your first job was?
Yes, 'cause the first job you don't charge them.
Because it's supposed to be unlucky.
Oh okay, that's just like a tradition?
Yes.
It was- I was on the Camden Town (cab) rank and I went to Elthorne Road.
Elthorne Road?
Yeah where Mum worked!
That was a coincidence?
Yes it is!
She worked actually in that street?
Yes.
That's weird.
Oh, just trying to think - we used to call ranks by the pubs.
Because often, another good way of calling work (over the radio), you used to call them
to the nearest cab rank.
So if you were on the cab rank, you automatically got the job.
Because it saved a lot of messing about and a lot of time.
What, if someone hails you at the rank, or phones?
No, they used to call the rank (over the radio).
Like the George rank up in Hampstead, by the Royal Free.
What they'd have like a telephone there?
No, the fellas- you used to rank up there, and they'd say call (over the radio) the George
rank to Kings Cross.
And then you'd just blow in and say yeah I'm first, second or third.
And if you were a radio taxi on there you got the job.
Were there many ranks round London back then.
Yes.
It just made the job easier as we got more busier and busier.
Oh this is driving me nuts, the Camden Town (rank).
You didn't call the Camden rank.
There used to be a pub on the left hand side and its a phone shop now, well it changes
every couple of months - oh I can't think of the name of it!
And what's this, this is a rank in Camden Town?
In the High Street.
Where the toilets are.
In the middle of the road there.
Yeah, I remember, what actually in Camden High Street?
That's it.
They're still there?
It's still got a rank there?
Yes, it's got busier again.
Not many people ranked up there, but now we're not so busy there's always about 3 or 4 taxis
on there.
So if someone phoned in wanting to be picked up from Camden High Street, they'd just radio
the rank?
No, what happens, say you wanted a cab, well to St. Paul's Crescent, they used to call
like if there's a taxi on Camden Town rank and give it (the job) to them.
And away you went.
It was just a lot easier.
Right, because they knew there'd be a cab there.
Well, yes.
Or, it'd be more likely...
Yes.
And often I used to use the green shelters.
But you had to sort of climb over it to get in.
What, because of the benches?
You had to literally climb over the table to--
-- Get in!
Did you use them much?
No because I lived too near home.
Well a lot of drivers who lived out in Romford and Chingford, I mean they couldn't go home
for lunch or go home for a cup of tea and they used these (green shelters).
I remember you used to get a baby monitor-- Shhh...
-- so you could have a cup of tea and you'd still be able to hear when the--
When the call's on it.
-- when the dispatch...
Yeah I'm not supposed to have done that.
[Laughter] Well it's just another bit of radio isn't
it?
Doesn't that count?
It's doing other people out of work.
Well, I'm sure others found ways round it.
Yeah.
[Laugh] You didn't stay in for long... it was just
toilet breaks... there's a statute of limitations on that I'm sure.
So you passed your test, you got your Green Badge, you've done your first job.
How did the first fare react to getting it for free?
I think he just ran away before I changed my mind.
[Laugh] I remember Jack, your mate Jack, he was in
traffic, and the fare was moaning about the fact that he was stuck in traffic and he just
turned around and said "Get out."
And I mean you can't do that, can you.
But I suppose it's "Your cab, your rules" I s'pose, isn't it?
You see the trouble is, you don't know why you're picking the person up - he or her could've
just been diagnosed with Cancer and just wants to get out, or vice versa, just been cleared
of Cancer, and in a happy mood.
You just don't know why people are using you and so you wait for them to talk to you.
Did you ever have any weirdos?
I can't remember.
I remember one story, where you're driving along and you can feel there's something on
the back of your head... and there's a bloke in the back who was just stroking the back
of your neck.
Do you remember that story?
Yes, I was a good looking fella in those days!
[Laughter] I was a pretty boy.
Did you get a tip?
I just want to get in and out and away we go.
There's so much I want to ask you, and it's probably...
They always say once you get your badge you should get an exercise book and write all
these things down.
But you never do.
I wish I had done though.
After all these years.
Well if you remember any, that'd be good.
And the radio circuit would have an annual...
I don't know what you'd call it, was it an AGM, or a beano?
Oh AGM, that's it.
AGM.
No, just how you could approve (the radio circuit) and you could vote for who you want
to be on the Board of Management.
And you know you was always gonna get a fella who's gonna get up and say the staff are using
too much toilet paper, you know, because you're given a... what do you call it...
The accounts?
The accounts - what's going on.
We had to attend these meetings, and if you didn't you got fined £50.
Oh right, so it was mandatory?
Yeah.
We would see some fellas just used to get up and... we'd all say "His wife doesn't let
him speak at home!" because he's come up and he's rabbiting on (the microphone)...
Because you went up, up onto the stand with a microphone, and said whatever you wanted
to say.
Right because everyone had shares in this.
You were all part of, I've forgotten what it's called, was it like a co-operative?
Yes, because for tax reasons or something it was done like that.
Oh, I can't remember the names!
[Laughs] And did things like... you got your badge
in, what, 1966?
No, I got it in the 1st July 1968.
Oh, forgive me, 1st July 1968 [Laughter].
That's when you did your first job from Camden High Street to Elthorne Road.
And then erm... did it change over the 70s?
Did it get easier, or harder?
Well it did, because we had a Three Day Week, in the Seventies.
And what is that?
That's when the Miners went on strike, and Ted Heath said well, you needed the coal to
do all the lights and electricity.
And then they found, to keep it going, well they didn't have enough coal so they made
everyone work, or have, a 3 day week.
I think it was Monday to Wednesday.
I mean there was other work going on, but most of the... you know the offices, had to
shut down.
And that meant, it was really quiet?
Yes.
For the rest of the week.
Very very quiet [Laughs].
And the other worst time was in the 90's.
When, erm, the (Bank Of England) Base Rate was 15%!
Like your mortgages.
And if you wanted to buy a cab, or something like that, it was a ridiculous high amount
to borrow.
So people never bought cabs, and didn't do a lot of things.
That was hard.
But there again, it was so different then.
Most of the fellas lived in council flats, and their wives had good jobs!
So if it wasn't for-- especially me.
My wife had a good job.
If not, I don't know what I would've done.
Or changed my job.
But you could keep your own hours?
Or work long hours, yeah.
That seemed to appeal to you, about the job.
That you could just get in the cab whenever?
Yeah but you've still got to do your hours.
You've still got to take your money.
And that's a bit of a myth when you say...
It seems as if "you can work when you like" then you can have some time off, or see the
kids... take the kids to school.
But then you still had to go from 6am or work in the evening to take your money up.
It's very hard to understand that.
Yeah, because you don't know how much work you're gonna do when you go out.
That's right.
Or if someone would say, look could you pick me up at 11 o'clock in the morning to take
me to wherever... but you had to stop an hour before because you never know where you were
going to end up!
I mean for 10 o'clock you're probably... if the person says Richmond, it's like sod's
law you're not gonna get back in time to pick the person up.
So you had to turn work down to get the "good job".
Yeah or stop for an hour.
Well, not a good job, a lot of it was just going round to the local stations, and you
had to stop an hour off - a good hour off before.
Which I found very difficult to explain to people.
Yeah, because you've got a guaranteed job but that means you've got to make sure you're
free for the guaranteed job.
So you're not ahead.
Airport jobs, were they always good?
Yes.
But everybody wanted them.
Everybody was after them.
And then when you go to the airport, it was really regimented wasn't it?
That when you got to Heathrow, you then had to go into a very strict queue for the rank
there?
Yeah.
I mean you'd usually average 2 hours and I couldn't be bothered to wait 2 hours.
I used to come straight back.
I can't think of stories to tell.
Yeah, no that's alright.
Do you know, it's just the basics of it.
Of how it works, isn't- I wouldn't be able to tell anyone, you know, how that worked
even just on a basic 'how do you get a taxi' level.
Or, you know quite how, you know, how regimented it was to, you know, get your licence from
the Carriage Office.
They were really strict weren't they?
Yeah, very very strict.
You didn't mind, because you knew the rules.
If you had to appear in Court for a witness, you had to wear your badge!
[Laughs] Really?
Yes!
[Laughter] What, that was the Law.
Yeah.
Yes, because it was looked after by the Metropolitan Police?
Yes.
I wish it was now.
Well, wish it was put back by the Police.
Because now it's Transport For London?
Yeah.
Civil Servants run it.
Right.
It was difficult when you were off the road, wasn't it?
If you had any - like a...
Accident?
Yeah, or damage to the cab.
That would be quite hard, wouldn't it?
Well, then, their argument was, you could go and hire another taxi from a garage.
But they were so...
I can't say... "poo carts"... you'd rather have the time off.
I mean you didn't get paid for holidays or anything like that - Bank Holidays - but we
all survived!
Somehow.
And would you pay like an annual fee to the radio circuit?
Monthly.
And that was the same, if you did lots of work or hardly went out?
That's right.
So that was quite a big overhead then.
Or, it was an overhead.
Yeah, but I used to enjoy the radio.
I think, if I hadn't had the radio I think I might've jacked the job in a long long time
ago.
I just made it more interesting, and you get to know the customers.
The customers get to know you.
And it was just pleasant.
I used to love doing those jobs.
But there was also - one of those stories - with these kids who were supposed to be
a bit loopy... erm, we were picking up from one school, and the fella in the back he was
about 13 or 14 and he gets out and he's chatting to me.
He's leaned over, and taken my watch!
Just zzchh - and my watch is gone!
What, he took it?
Without you noticing?
Hardly.
He was so fast!
I mean, it was an Argos one, which I always keep because of bashing it.
He's given it back.
I thought this is... well if he can do it that quick, and you've got a 10,000 pound
Rolex on there, it would've been gone!
That's why I've never, never, would never have an expensive watch.
And this kid's supposed to be loopy.
You used to have a money bag.
Yes.
Well, that's what everyone had.
All the cabbies had.
I used to have it tucked down the side of my seat, beside the partition.
But I've had a couple at Waterloo - a couple of drugaddicts who are, you know, "Got a light
mate?" and they're leaning in there, you know, looking for it.
It makes you a bit more streetwise.
Yeah.
Were you ever diddled?
You know, did you have people who'd run at the end of the fare?
Yeah, I've had it... well, mainly it's the hours you work.
Because, working days and first in the morning, it was very very rare.
Well a couple of times if someone didn't wait for me I'd just drive off and wipe my face,
I had a couple of times like that.
But you'd prefer doing early mornings and days rather than nights, because of that.
And being on the radio.
You're guaranteed your money.
And now the radio's gone!
Or Dial-A-Cab's...
Gone.
Yes.
No-one's said - I've not seen any mention of it.
No coverage of it anywhere.
That the radio circuit owned a building that they got in what, the 1980s?
Early 80s probably?
Just off City Road?
No, we got that in around 1998 I think it was.
And the value of it went so high...
No, this one was - I know where it is - but we sold it and then bought, because we needed
bigger premises, we bought this one in City Road.
And then, of course, this was before Old Street roundabout and, what do they call it, Silicon
Roundabout.
Before then.
And it was just luck, being in the right place.
And of course everyone moved in there.
It's a bit like the housing in Central London - if you were lucky to buy one years and years
ago - and it was just lucky that it has all gone up.
So the radio circuit co-operative all jointly owned this property that was just getting
insane amounts of money being offered to it - that it was better to disband and split
the profit... and then fold Dial-A-Cab into...
Well just wind it up.
Or let's wind it up and join these other two (radio) circuits.
Oh, well, thanks.
Thanks for that.
It was just the basics of how you get a badge, and how or what it was like back then.
Did you ever forget to turn your orange light on?
You know, so you'd be driving around...
Lots of times!
[Laughs] Thinking there's no work.
Yes.
I wasn't the only one to do it.
Did you ever have anyone fight over who got you first?
I had it once in Bond Street.
And I picked a woman up, and another woman comes up running over to me shouting "I saw
you first!"
Well what can I do?
And you always said your rule was whoever gets in first is the one who gets it.
That's right.
Like musical chairs.
As I say, I should've had this book, writing book and write all these things down.
Oh right, no this is brilliant - this is absolutely... that's brilliant thank you.
Because now when I get asked these really basic questions... about the history of being
a cabbie...
Now I know.
That's funny about the Kings Cross place, I didn't realise that (the 2 radio circuits)
they'd split up.
More or less, that's why I liked that flat.
It's not until I've actually stopped, and noticed, how much Kings Cross has played in
my life.
I mean, even St. Pancras underneath there - I used to have all my taxi work done by
Brian.
Oh yeah, what in the arches...
Yeah, underneath the arches there.
Before they knocked them down for the Eurostar...
It was in Prime Suspect, wasn't it?
It all ended in the arches, that was the arch where you used to get your cab fixed.
No, in Prime Suspect they were the ones by the church.
St. Pancras went all the way down, but I used to have all my electrical work done there.
This actually went in underneath St. Pancras where one brewery used to put all their barrels
in there, so they said.
But that's where you used to get your cab fixed?
Yeah, and there used to be a cafe there, a lot of the fellas used.
I didn't use it because I only lived up the road.
Was it on the Midland Road side?
Or the other, Bedford Road?
I used to... went in by... well you know you've got Kings Cross there, and you just went across
the road into the arches.
[Oh, my battery's gone!
That's it!]
Yeah and of course I went to school in Kings Cross.
When I first moved down to London.
[re.
Levy's Taxi Garage in York Way N1] Actually I used to give the fella a couple
of bob - I don't know, a couple of shillings or something - because if your battery blew
up or didn't work, you'd be off of work for a day, while you got it changed.
So he used to top up your battery.
Battery yeah, and water.
And oil.
That's right, the 3 things they used to check for.
So you were just saying, you'd fill up with diesel about once every 2 days.
Yes, when I've finished work, yes.
You'd always get that done in Kings Cross.
Yeah, in York Way.
Quite a lot of fellas, we all did that 'cause we lived there.
And when you're filling up, they'd check your oil and battery...
And didn't overspill the diesel, so it all went down the side of the cab.
It'd save you doing that!
I never knew why it was called - well I know now, but it was always called DERV in there
- is that because it's "Diesel Engine Road Vehicle"?
No, just derv.
It's diesel, it's just sort of a nickname for it.
Getting the fella (to do the work there) was nice.
It was just, a lot quieter and simple time.
People didn't have £200,000 mortgages, and a brand new cab that you'd paid fortunes for.
You could relax a bit.
That's why some of the fellas used to get so uptight.
They owed so much money.
What, later on?
In the 80s?
No, later, I'd say more in the 90s.
Can you please help my Daddy get 1000 subscribers.
Just click on his face, thanks, bye!
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