your job is not to miss when you get lucky you have to be lucky and believe
me…every time I use the word lucky people look at safe he's so modest
bullshit
I never met a modest photographer that
was any good and I'm certainly not modest I'm very proud of the work I did
it worked very hard but the photographer between Ali's legs herb Herb Sharfman he took
one of the most famous boxing pictures in history of Marciano that famous
rubber face great boxing photographer he was sitting he was my competition
that Sports Illustrated he was the other Sports Illustrated a ringside
photographer he's just on the wrong side of the ring that had nothing to do with
any knowledge I brought to it
Ali - Williams on the other hand was an idea I
had I figured out something that no one had thought about and when I
first decided to try this I knew if I got a good knockout I'd have a memorable
picture someone on his back as opposed to crumpled in the… you needed sort
of to fill the ring graphically with the the fighter on his way back to a corner
which Ali never used to do most of them the referee couldn't control him
you don't want three people lumped in a corner because that just graphically
doesn't look as good I needed someone in his back looking up at the
camera would help however if that hadn't happened just two people in the middle
of the ring punching with that shot but if Williams hadn't got knocked out at
that fight this would still be a damn good picture
[Music]
I was around Ali a lot I mean he look he knew me I mean Ali was a
wonderful self promoter you know a Sports Illustrated was a magazine that
sold a lot of tickets to his fights when I'd show up here he was well aware of
the fact it was a good chance he'd be in there he would say "it's gonna be a cover" you
but he was that kind of guy I'd like to tell you
his importance of sports illustrator or Life magazine or Newsweek or whatever
the fact of the matter is Ali would pose for a high school kid if you waited
he never said no to anybody you know I had the luxury of working for a magazine then
that had a lot of money gave me the luxury of spending time remember
oddly enough I probably photographed him in in the New York studio that Time Inc
had half a dozen times I did a number of the covers he'd come in to promote a
fight we'd get a session with him in the studio but 90% of the work I did was on
the road it was either and in his training camp up in the Catskills or was
and Poconos not the Catskills or was in Miami he
trained at the 5th street gym or was in Chicago or and and later on in Berrien
Springs Michigan you do him away well I can't afford to do that kind of you know
who could you had to have a magazine that allowed you the luxury or the time
it took to get things done and we spent a lot of money
shooting with strobe lights you know there's a quality and quality of high
speed film you know… taking 400 ASA film and pushing it to 800 it's grainy
it doesn't have… my pictures and Sports Illustrated allowed this was all
strobe lit they were taken really the same as Avedon would be taking a studio
photograph or you know or Karsh
Judge Roy Huffines in Houston Texas
came up with the idea of building an indoor stadium for baseball and football
because the humidity it was between the humidity and the mosquitoes it was
so bad that they really playing outside baseball baseball team people didn't
go to the game and he built the Houston Astrodome which called the eighth wonder
of the world and I got assigned to do a piece on
to do a photographic essay on the building of the stadium so I would go
down probably every two months
cameras above the boxing ring go back before I
was born you will see Joe Lewis
photographers would put a camera above
then and trigger it remotely from ringside
but the widest lens - the widest lens you can have wouldn't take in the whole ring
unless you put the camera in the corner so they were always done in the corner
plus the fact you didn't want the top of people's heads for the most part when
you put it in the corner you have…
you're gonna get the face somebody
knocks someone down and they come with their hands up the camera's there
looking this way as opposed to looking straight down on me you know it's not
quite the same no lens other than a fisheye and I used the fisheye in Miami
at Ali's first fight and again it had had been done I was the only one to
do that picture but it made the ring look something like a basketball
you've got the barrel distortion was such with the fisheye he didn't get a
square ring and the reason was you couldn't put the camera up high enough
to get the whole ring it varried depending on what arena Madison Square
Garden might have been 20 feet from apron to the lighting fixture we'd mount
the camera well that's what was and some places it could have been 25 feet but
that was about it even the outdoor fights were many
outdoor fights Yankee Stadium, Chicago Stadium they had many many at
championship fights were held outdoors with huge crowds but the ring was the
same ring that they used in Madison Square Garden they built a little you
know just a covering
however the Houston Astrodome presented
a different problem in order to for the lighting rig what they did is they had a
gondola they called it a gondola it was round
it was almost 80 feet across - it was
huge it was like a little bridge and it was basically an elevator they could
press a button and bring it right down to the ground
that was the lighting fixture for a rock concert a political convention you know
whatever event would they put a stage in the middle
I saw artists renditions of what it was gonna look like when they had a fight
there I'm thinking to myself
wow its gonna be up
high enough to put a normal camera with a normal lens that will get a square
ring and I knew this would be it certainly would be a very different
picture than anyone had ever taken of boxing before not that it was some
brilliant idea I had - you couldn't take the picture before no such piece of
equipment existed none in order to strobe it and get it right
the only camera you could do with it was a motorized Hasselblad which I put
a motorized Hasselblad right in the middle of the ring up straight in the
middle we strobe lit it I remember a lot of photographers looking at me said why's he
putting the camera there it went up they do the television people are gonna test
the lights anyway so it went up two, three days before the fight I did a
test roll I even saw a test roll I knew that I had I knew exactly what I had
I knew the exposure was right because I shot a test roll of color which we
processed in Houston and all I needed was the knock down quite frankly
a good sports photographer when he gets lucky I got lucky with the knockdown
doesn't miss but as they say that would have been a memorable picture had there
been no knock down with the strobe lights the power surge is you gotta wait
for so when I took that picture I couldn't take another picture for three
and a half seconds it's one shot now yes I didn't miss when you see in the film
and you see how quick it happened I you know obviously did something special
yes a kid I was I was a rabid Brooklyn Dodger fan I mean I lived in… I made
my Bar Mitzvah speech once which absolutely destroyed my mother and we
were in an Orthodox temple and my bar mitzvah speech in 1955 Brooklyn had
finally won a World Series and in my bar mitzvah speech was about that the good
Lord clearly was looking down on my bar mitzvah because this year he gave me
that one present in my lifetime we never had Brooklyn win a world series so I
loved it and you know and and the idea of and I fell in love with photography I
just saw it as a hobby is a teenager and I really liked it combining the two I
grew up in a poor neighborhood low-income housing project in the Lower
East Side of Manhattan and I couldn't afford to buy a ticket even cheap seats
for the sporting events so the idea of being credentialed to an event
which gave me the best seat in the house and let me do something I love to do
which is… was photography and be at the biggest events in the best seat and
then when I started getting my pictures published what a great
that's just a great thing I mean they're seeing my credit line you know
I still get excited when I get - when I get a good piece I always wanted to work
for Life magazine I wanted to do other things I was worried about Time magazine
because I had gotten various, I had already done over 100 covers for Sports
Illustrated first person ever to do that and I wanted to get the cover and Time
occasionally and Time ran art 90% of the time well we had a great great
editor at Sports Illustrated Ray Cave in 1977 Ray was promoted to managing
editor of time in the middle of 77 whatever and I was his first hire he and
I were great buddies I was huge fan is and I got to shoot things as diverse I
mean I always tell people I shot everything from Charles Manson to the
Pope which is true but I had 40-plus covers of Time
magazine they range from the animals of Africa I had a lion in the cover that I
photographed in Masai Mara I had a huge biggest essay they ever ran at the time on
prisons - I spent a year doing prisons I photographed everyone
well I photographed seven maximum-security prisons and I did
Charles Manson which is the only time anyone's ever been in his cell with him
you know this was not an interview room
oh he was a little twerp I mean he looked like a
jockey everyone said was it frightening I said he's the only inmate in an entire
year that I would have wiped the… now but he had a gun or a knife he's frightening
but he weighed about 80 90 pounds he was a little guy a little skinny guy and he
wasn't frightening yeah wacko totally nuts but it was a
fascinating assignment I spent a whole day with him and and we ran that
very well in the magazine but I also did the Pope coming to America and got the
cover the magazine I did both political convention covers in 1980 and we had a
lot of competition there were like 15 photographers shooting each convention I
got both covers it was something exciting - listen you know to do… to have a
session with the president States is where I come from a low-income housing
project in the Lower East Side I never dreamed I'd be alone in the Oval Office
with the president
when I started shooting football okay pro football NFL football when I started
shooting pro football college football the same thing television cameras there were
two cameras in the press box upstairs shooting down on the field and one
upstairs in each end zone that was it there was no such thing as a handheld
camera on the sidelines that was the that was strictly the province of Life
magazine that Sports Illustrated wrote you know photojournalists to see a
portrait of a guy coveted mud on a muddy day you didn't see that you didn't get
in close
the Kentucky Derby take any event you want you didn't see the shots
you saw an overhead view usually of the horses coming down the straightaway you didn't
see the under the rail shot with the spires of Churchill Downs back so when
you saw it the Sports Illustrated it looked it was great it was novel it was
different today the coverage of NFL football is so spectacular even I'll
give you a much better example in the early 60s
one of my heroes John Zimmerman was Sports Illustrated's staff photographer John
Zimmerman put a camera in the hockey net in the net and shot one of the memorable
iconic sports pictures Gump Worsley the Ranger goalie diving across strobe lit
with one of the great Montreal Canadiens right in front that stick is just
trying to lift the puck over him score a goal
nobody ever seen anything like that a year later he puts a camera up above the
backboard shooting through the glass and shot Wilt Chamberlain who was then the
biggest player in the game did an eight page essay and a cover no one had ever
seen that before today every single hockey game not only during the playoffs
during the season there's a camera in each net and not only is there it can
zoom it can pan which Zimmerman couldn't do none of these things are novel anymore
and that's what to me makes it so what you look at look at the pictures today
anything jeeze they're not very special well of course they're not special
because you saw it live when it happened there's nothing take a take the
David Tyree helmet catch I did a documentary for ESPN a couple of years
ago where I did four photographers who photographed every Super Bowl and one of
the things I wanted to do was to show how much the things have changed and I
showed the David Tyree catch yes the photographer's got it beautifully but do
you know how many cameras NFL Films had on it they had 16 cameras on that play
16 cameras close-up super slow medium slow field level from four different
sides of the field four different upstairs pictures you can't compete with
them and it's instant and that's why and they freeze it sometimes what you've
seen and you see it over and over again and you see it on the news that night by
the time you get your newspaper on Monday morning you've seen all those
images they're not so special any more but what's really missing are two things
one your dad Ted was an artist I never thought I used to be pissed off
whenever they ran big art essays we wanted photography but I missed the art
in the magazine now because it was so good it was so good the illustration
with the occasional covers that were done illustration covers well, when I
first got there they were all the time and it was a better magazine when
it had that and writing you're not getting the great writers anymore - the
magazines just don't lure them we had really really good writers the magazine
Andre Lagares made the magazine by hiring a staff of writers that became
legendary writers many were huge many they were successful novelists listen
Hemingway wrote for Sports Illustrated
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