Good afternoon everyone.
My name is Father Mark Bosco,
Vice President for Mission and Ministry
here at Georgetown University.
Welcome to Dahlgren Chapel of the Sacred Heart,
the spiritual heart of our Georgetown community.
In this sacred space generations of students,
faculty, staff and alumni have encountered God
in the sacraments, in prayer, and in communal reflection.
In the spirit of our Jesuit and Catholic heritage
we profess here our deep respect
and our sincere appreciation for people of other backgrounds
who also seek to grow in faith and knowledge.
Georgetown's Jesuit tradition of education
has always prized both the pursuit of truth
and the development of virtue.
It is the transformation of the whole person
from ignorance to understanding,
from isolation to dialogue,
from indifference to moral responsibility,
that characterizes the best of what a Jesuit education
like Georgetown has to offer.
So much of our political and social discourse
in our nation has hardened.
It has distracted us from our ability
to have an informed, honest, even prophetic dialogue
about the ethical issues facing us today.
With these Dahlgren Dialogues
we hope that a conversation in the midst
of this sacred space might offer a more prayerful posture
to engage political, academic and spiritual leaders.
Framing these dialogues within a place of prayer and worship
can sustain and empower us
to be more active participants
and renew our common sense of purpose.
Today the Office of Mission and Ministry
in collaboration with
the Initiative on Catholic Social Thought
continues the series of conversations around social justice
in light of our rich and deep theological heritage.
Today we share our thoughts, reflections and prayers
on sharing the journey with immigrants and refugees.
We are so pleased to have Cardinal Joseph Tobin
as our featured panelist today.
As this is prayer I'd like to invite Georgetown's
interfaith chaplain Imam Yahya Hendi
to begin this evenings Dahlgren Dialogue in prayer.
- A reading from the holy Quran.
(speaking in foreign language)
But those were before them
had horns in the city
and had adopted the faith.
They showed their affection and love to those
who immigrate to them,
and to those who flee onto them for refuge.
They entertain no desire in their hearts
for things given to the immigrants,
but give them preference over themselves
even though they are in hardship and adversity.
Let us all pray.
Compassionate God, you want us to open our shores
and homes to those who escape tyranny,
poverty, torture, violence, and war.
Compassionate God, guide us to welcome
immigrants with the pleasure, generosity
and delight to share our wealth
with them as you share your love with us all.
To open our eyes so that we can see you in the eyes
of our immigrant communities
who's eyes are saddened for having resided
for long time in the shadows.
Compassionate God, the God of justice
who transcends all borders and all boundaries
give us audacity, the courage, and the strength
to challenge to say no to all unfair laws.
Give us the strength to stand with and for a kingdom
of radical love and radical justice.
Justice for all.
Let us all with a united voice say Amen.
- [Congregation] Amen.
- Thank you Imam.
I now invite Dr. John J. DeGioia,
President of Georgetown University
to come forward to introduce our distinguished guest
and panelist and to set the tone for our dialogue.
- Well thank you very much Father Bosco
for your exceptional leadership
of our Office of Campus Ministry.
And it's an honor to be here with all of you.
Good afternoon, it's a privilege to welcome all of you
for our third Dahlgren Dialogue
hosted by our Initiative on Catholic Social Thought
and Public Life
and our Office of Mission and Ministry.
These dialogues offer an opportunity for us
to come together in prayer, reflection
and conversation on the intersection
of faith and public life as we seek a deeper alignment
of our values and our action.
Pleased to have with us this afternoon
Paul and Chan Tagliabue, who are both terrific leaders
on our campus.
Paul serves as Vice Chair of our Board of Directors.
Chan is member of our Board of Regents
This afternoon we will have the pleasure of hearing
from two students, Mizraim Belman Guerrero
and Habon Ali, who will share their own reflections
and experiences.
Mizraim and Habon thank you for being
a part of today's conversation.
And finally I wish to offer my gratitude to
the Initiative of Catholic Social Thought,
to John Carr, the initiative director
who will also moderate our session today.
And to Father Bosco and the Office of Mission and Ministry
for their efforts to make today's dialogue possible.
Today's dialogue invites us to engage
with a global campaign launched by his holiness
Pope Francis in September of 2017.
This campaign called Share the Journey
aims to inspire action among our global community
and issues a call for us to stand in solidarity
with migrants and refugees in our communities
and around the world.
This fall we were honored to welcome
Archbishop Silvano Tomasi to our campus
to share his reflections on this call to action
and his insights on the urgency of these issues
and the role that each of us can play
in support of and in solidarity
of displaced people throughout our world.
The Share the Journey project is animated
by a commitment to a culture of encounter.
An idea that has been prominent in the leadership
of Pope Francis.
A culture of encounter honors personal interaction
and an attentiveness to our neighbor
that in Pope Francis' words quote,
"Returns to each person their dignity
"as children of God, the dignity of living."
Close quote.
He urges us as a global community
to draw upon this connection, this encounter,
to deepen our solidarity with our
immigrant and refugee sisters and brothers.
This call to solidarity is more urgent today than ever.
For many years our Georgetown community
has advocated for the passage of the Dream Act.
And at this critical time we continue to push
for a permanent bi-partisan solution
to protect our Dreamers.
In the years since DACA was put in place
more and more of our young people with courage
and conviction have helped to drive awareness
of how our nations immigration policies impact
our neighbors and made it clear
that we need to address seriously the framework
for immigration in our country.
This week students continued to uplift
the importance of these issues by organizing
a Day to Dream, that included advocacy
and a social media campaign supporting our Dreamers.
These efforts and many others remind us
that we must foster a national conversation
that affirms the dignity of every immigrant,
of every undocumented student,
of every refugee.
In order to ensure that we can as a nation
fulfill our responsibilities to one another.
There are few better suited to be here with us today
to offer an example of what it means
to commit ourselves to walking alongside our immigrant
brothers and sisters to embody a culture
of encounter and care for our neighbors than Cardinal Tobin.
For many years he's been a strong and unwavering
voice for those in our undocumented
and immigrant communities.
During his early pastoral work after seminary
when he was assigned to his childhood parish in Detroit,
Cardinal Tobin helped to establish a center
for political refugees seeking asylum.
As archbishop of Indianapolis, Cardinal Tobin
advocated for Syrian refugees seeking sanctuary
in the state of Indiana, providing resettlement services
through Catholic charities.
In October of 2016, his Holiness Pope Francis
named Cardinal Tobin to the College of Cardinals
and shortly after appointed him Archbishop of Newark.
In this role Cardinal Tobin continues his advocacy
about the impact of immigration policies
on our neighbors and on community members.
Even accompanying an individual facing deportation
to his federal hearing.
Through programs in the Newark Archdiocese,
Cardinal Tobin has helped resettle refugees
from all over the world and he continues to speak out
about the executive orders
impacting refugees and immigrants.
He's a native of Detroit, the oldest of 13 children.
Cardinal Tobin also served as Superior General
of the Redemptorists' Order for 12 years
and as Secretary of the
Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life
and Societies of Apostolic Life in the Vatican.
Throughout his career he has remained deeply committed
to justice and to the dignity of all he serves.
In an address in Brooklyn this past year,
Cardinal Tobin called listeners to in his words quote,
"Put a face on the faceless to restore a human face
"to those who's faces have been distorted.
"In doing so we show our face
"not as a bunch of isolated individuals
"but as a network of hope, people who believe
"and because of his belief accept the bond of solidarity."
Close quote.
Cardinal Tobin's prophetic voice challenges us
to be alive to this possibility of solidarity,
to our responsibility for the common good
and calls us to respond with conviction
to one of the most pressing political
social questions of our time.
Your eminence we are deeply grateful for your presence.
We're honored to be able to share this afternoon with you.
Cardinal Tobin will be joined in conversation
by John Carr, the director of our
Initiative on Catholic Social Thought and Public Life,
our moderator this afternoon.
After their dialogue we will welcome Ms. Raheem and Habon
to share their reflections and join the conversation.
We have some seats on both sides
so as we move to this next stage,
if some of you would like to come in
there's room over here for those
who are standing in the back.
Please this would be the moment to do it.
And as you do so it's truly an honor for me to welcome
to our stage Cardinal Tobin in conversation with John Carr.
(audience applause)
- Nothing like a full church.
- No.
- Well this Dahlgren Dialogue,
and I want to thank our partners
in Mission and Ministry who've made this possible,
it's our third.
Brings togetherness a community that cares
and stands in solidarity.
Not only with the members of our community
who are immigrants and refugees,
but well beyond that.
It bring together a pastor who leads,
not only with words but with example.
Accompanying immigrants and refugees
and standing with them in times of fear
and with students who are examples.
So the very dignity we seek to protect.
It's the right place, the right topic,
and a very urgent time.
Since Dr. DeGioia introduced you
with all those impressive credentials.
I have a different question.
How does a kid from Detroit,
the oldest of 13, end up a Redemptorist at the Vatican,
Indianapolis and then a Cardinal in Newark?
- Well I appreciate the question
because I was getting a little squeamish
in my seat when Dr. DeGioia was speaking.
I felt like the widow at her husband's funeral.
Hearing the priest preach a glowing eulogy,
open the casket see who's in there.
(audience laughing)
I suppose part of it was the circumstances of my birth.
I'm the grandson of immigrants
and my grandmother who came from an important part of Europe
called Conticary,
(audience laughing)
and scrubbed floors in a Boston hospital
so she could send her kids to school.
She always spoke English well.
Sometimes too well.
She used to say to me,
"Joseph, I never figured you for a priest."
(audience laughing)
But I guess it's better than honest work.
(audience laughing)
I noticed though that when she prayed by herself
she prayed in Irish.
And I asked her once and she indicated she wasn't quite sure
that God understood English.
(audience laughing)
- We're already in trouble.
- Yeah, so I think that growing up with that connection
to another country and realizing what brought her
to the United States.
Because my dad and my uncles never had a whole lot of money
but they would often offer to pay her way back
to see her sisters in Ireland.
And she would dismiss them saying,
"All I knew there was poverty.
"You go back."
Finally she went back when she was 75
and complained that everything had changed.
(audience laughing)
I was fortunate to be born in a sort of a
working class neighborhood of Detroit
that was a gateway for immigrants.
So I grew up with kids that went home
and spoke a different language,
they ate different kinds of food
and often times a lot more interesting than
some of the food that we had because the three qualities
for Irish cooking is put something in water, boil it
and take it out.
(audience laughing)
They spoke a different language at home
and I was curious about that.
Then I think what motivated me to join the Redemptorists
was the sense that they wanted to stand with people,
sort of on the other side of the tracks.
And I continued on that trajectory
but during my formation spending summers
working with migrants and migrant camps
and getting to know a little bit about their lives.
And as a young priest, being sent back to that home parish
which at one time I think was the largest
organized English speaking parish in the world.
We had 14 masses on Sunday when I was a kid
and about 20,000 people.
When I returned it was neither organized
nor English speaking.
And we had mass every Sunday in English, Spanish and Arabic.
And it was getting to know their reality,
working as an organizer for the United Farm Workers
in Detroit, and then Dr. DeGioia mentioned
the work during the terrible civil wars of the 1980s
in Central America.
That people from our neighborhood were being deported
and then killed when they returned to Salvador or Honduras.
So all of that conspired to
open my eyes to the reality of these people.
- You were at the Vatican,
you came home, clearly those experiences
drove your ministry.
Not every archbishop takes on a governor
who wants to restrict refugees.
Not every cardinal accompanies immigrants
to deportation hearings.
Where does the passion come from?
Why is this a religious issue?
Why are we in the chapel instead of the lecture hall
as we discuss this?
- What I think from a Christian standpoint,
if you dig down deep enough in what we believe
we believe in the greatest migration that's been possible.
I mean it's a scandalous migration for many
that God leaves God's glory and becomes one of us.
And then becomes a migrant.
After his birth he has to flee with his family
to another country because there are people
who want to kill him.
And he returns and knows some of the poverty,
the sort of ruthlessness that let him to say
the foxes have their dens and the birds they have their nest
but the son of man has no place to lay his head.
Describing I think, the sort of migration that's at the root
of our belief.
We also stand in a Judeo-Christian tradition
that admonished seriously the people of God
to welcome the alien and to never mistreat them.
And the motivation was for you once were aliens.
Hence the consternation when good hearted believing people
in this country forget that.
Most all of us except for Native Americans
and the descendants of slaves came here
to try and find something better.
- You share a lot of things with Pope Francis.
The one of the things you share is this priority,
this passion for migrants.
You said earlier at a class that you attended
that Pope Francis probably didn't have a lot of
familiarity with immigration
but he has made this in some ways the center piece
of his leadership.
He latched on to this very early.
Why do you think it drives him as well as driving you?
- Well maybe I can tell my favorite Pope Francis story.
It's got to stay in this chapel.
(audience laughing)
- That will work, the camera there, the red light means.
- Maybe you've heard me tell it before
because I'm so concerned about security.
But I have a done very good sources
that shortly after Pope Francis was elected
in the spring of 2013, he contacted the
Secretary of State of the Holy See, a cardinal
and said, "I want to got to Lampedusa."
Lampedusa you might know as an island
in the southern Mediterranean.
Part of the Italian National Territory
but really much closer to Libya than it is to
the Italian mainland.
Well the cardinal tried to talk him out of it.
He said, "Look this is your first trip,
"it's going to communicate a message.
"Maybe this isn't the message you want to communicate.
"And you just got elected,
"maybe it's not the time to be traveling.
"So why don't you think about it?"
A week later the Holy Father called again
and he said, "I want to got to Lampedusa."
So the cardinal could see he had his mind made up
and he said, "Okay, okay fine, we'll got to Lampedusa,
"but these trips can't be arranged
"from one day to the next.
"It's logistics, it's media, it's security.
"Maybe six months.
"Possibly a year."
The following week the cardinal received
another phone call but this time it wasn't from the Pope.
It was from a vice president of Alitalia
which is the national airline.
And the vice president said,
"I think you people would want to know
"that a passenger by the name of Jorge Bergoglio
(audience laughing)
"has booked a seat on the Rome Lampedusa flight."
(audience laughing)
And then they moved and by June of that year 2013,
so really about four months after his election he was there.
And what you asked me John,
I thought about that incident
besides the charming stubbornness of the Holy Father,
I asked myself, "Well as the Archbishop of Buenos Aires
"how much contact did you have with refugees?
"Or with immigrants?"
Certainly there's a portion of people that come from
neighboring Latin American countries.
And then I realized he was doing what in the
Catholic community, the Second Vatican Council
instructed the church to do
in many different ways, but I suppose most clearly
in the pastoral constitution on the church
in the modern world,
and that was to read the signs of times and places
in the light of faith.
That's what convinced him.
Because he realized that there's 65 million refuges
in the strict sense of the UN's definition
on the face of the earth today.
If you factor in the immigrants,
it works out to be about 1 in every 42 people
on the face of the earth.
And so I think he saw that this had to be,
this was laying on his heart and on the church
the obligation to respond.
- You bring not only passion and experience,
your grandmother but responsibility.
As Archbishop of Indianapolis
you got in on a dialogue with the governor of Indiana
who along with a lot of other governors
after a terrorist incident said
we're going to ban refugees from a part of the world.
And Governor Pence said not in Indiana
and you said we have different responsibilities.
That's not an easy thing to do
to take on the power of the state.
Why did you do that?
What did you say to him?
- Well the Catholic Charities and the
Archdioceses of Indiana was like Catholic charities
across the United States has had a very successful
track record in resettling refugees
and helping them integrate into their new life
and to accompany them as they go along.
If you recall, I believe it was September of 2015,
there were terrorist attacks in Paris and Belgium.
And afterwards about 31 United States governors
said that they would except no Syrian refugees
in their jurisdictions.
Which even from a legal standpoint was questionable
because once people were admitted to the United States
by the federal government
they would settle where they could.
So I wanted to talk to Governor Pence
and I brought along the director of Catholic Charities
for the archdioceses as well as a very talented
young woman who is in charge of the actual
refugee resettlement program.
And a fourth person who was a young Iraqi refugee
by the name of Ali.
And Ali had a degree in English
from the University of Baghdad .
He enjoyed quoting Shakespeare
and he had just become an American citizen.
So my intention was to say
this is what a refugee looks like.
And this is what can happen to a refugee
if they're welcomed and accompanied in love.
And he was very happy to explain to the governor
all that he was doing and how much he loved his job
as the coffee manager at the JW Marriott.
Next time you're in Indianapolis ask for Ali,
he'll give you a discount.
(audience laughing)
And so I said to the governor,
"We don't believe, first it's legal
"and we certainly don't believe it's moral
"to arbitrarily ban people who have fled situations
"of incredible violence, who have lived in refugee camps
"for three years or more."
The family we had in mind had been in a refugee camp
in Jordan for three years,
two and a half of which they had been extensively
vetted by seven different federal agencies.
And were ready to come.
I mean we were talking about a mater of a week or so.
And he said, "Well will you go home and pray about it?"
I said, "I'll pray about it."
And then I phoned him and said we were going to
go ahead and there was some mention that funds
would be not available.
And I said, "Well then I'll count on
"the community to do it."
And so we did.
That family, that mom and dad and two kids were welcomed.
The mother had a sister already in Indianapolis
that we had resettled.
And their biggest problem after about six months
was that the kids were waking up their mom and dad on Sunday
thinking that they were going to miss school.
They were so happy to be in a school and learning things.
So yeah that's what led to the conversation.
- That was not my experience as a parent.
(audience laughing)
The story you told remind me of my little parish.
A couple of people from my parish here
has also been involved in welcoming a refugee family.
And we're helping a refugee family I hope,
but it's helping us practice our faith.
But I was really struck by the fact
that while we were meeting downstairs
to talk about this family,
upstairs at the noon mass were about 300 Latino Catholics
many of whom were at risk of deportation.
Here we focus on DACA, and we should
but there are many other immigrants who live in fear
and uncertainty and are at risk because of the policies
that are being advocated.
You accompanied one of those immigrants
to a deportation hearing.
Who was that?
Why did you do that?
How do we understand?
If people are here illegally,
shouldn't they face the consequences?
- Well about a year ago I was contacted
by friends and informed of a gentleman
by the name of Katlino Guerrero,
who was born in Mexico, 59 years old,
a grandfather with his wife four kids
and a number of grandchildren in New Jersey.
As well as sever diabetes and a heart condition.
And he was facing what they thought
could be immediate deportation.
He had worked, didn't have a traffic ticket,
had paid his taxes all those years.
So after 25 years they were going to take him
and I just joined other religious leaders
from other Christian churches from Muslim communities,
and Jewish communities, simply to walk with him.
And to I think show that he was not alone
but also to the best of our ability
show his face, his real face.
And I suppose the conviction about the face
that began for me years ago,
I have 12 siblings and eight of them are girls
and they're very smart and very assertive.
And I could show you scares.
(audience laughing)
One of them is a federal judge now
did her undergrad in history.
So I used to steal her books when she'd come home
when I was home on vacation and read them.
She had a very interesting one
on some of the ethical dimensions of World War II.
I'll never forget this article on allied bombing policy.
The allies, and especially the Americans,
when we entered the war in late 1941
had a very strict criteria about who we would bomb.
It would be absolutely only military targets.
That changed and we began to bomb civilian areas.
What the author pointed out was at the time
that that policy changed the propaganda had to change.
And work very hard to objectify the Germans and Japanese,
as something less then human.
Because call me polianish
but I think that even in our flawed state
if we recognize the humanity of another person
it makes it much more difficult to act inhumanly.
So whether we're talking about the political rhetoric
that calls people names, horrible names,
or even the sort of political thought
that simply speaks of statistics.
I like what Mark Twain said
that there are three kinds of lies.
There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.
And I think to everybody here in the soft sciences
it's not simply that reading can be ambiguous
or they can be manipulated.
But I think if you're talking about human beings
the risk is of reducing people to simply statistics.
When you do that, then you can do less
than human things to them.
- Here we don't refer to statistics
we refer to data.
(audience laughing)
It's much better.
You not only have gone from these experience
with the governor and with deportation,
you and the bishops have actively but respectfully
but clearly opposed the policies of this administration.
The so called Muslim ban, the removing the temporary
status for Salvadorians, Nicaraguans, Haitians, DACA,
what they call chain migration,
what you call family unification.
Why and how do you step over welcoming a stranger
to these policies are not the right policies
and frankly the demonization rhetoric of immigrants
and refugees is not an abstraction?
Comes from a particular place.
When they come talk about countries
in names we can't say in chapel,
those are places you've been.
Why do you move from general avoid evil do good,
welcome the stranger to the Muslim ban is wrong,
we got to have a DACA solution,
the Haitians and Salvadoreans, the Nicaraguans who are here
deserve a place?
Why do you and how do you cross that line
and how do you explain that to legislatures,
policy makers and ordinary citizens?
- Well I think that one of the
absolute purposes or if you will of faith
is to reduce fear.
There's that old adage if you trust God than why be afraid.
Now I don't think I would advocate
a sort of political naivete.
But I do believe that people are aware of how
the world changes and it frightens them.
And a 24/7 news cycle enhances that fear
to keep you coming back.
Because you'll have a better chance of turning on your TV
if you're afraid.
And so I think that not simply out of justice
for the people who are being treated inhumanely
but to free people who feel secure in this country
at least that we have a paper that says so.
But are in fact victims of fear
and are being manipulated.
For me it's probably has something to do with this
experience of globalization
and I find it very interesting that
possibly the most nefarious feature of globalization
you can't see.
Things like massive currency transfers,
or manipulation of markets, you can't see that.
What you can see are these poor people
who've come from another place.
And they must be the reason why
my life isn't happy or because I'm afraid.
I don't think it's true.
So we're trying to say that.
- Are some of the fears justified not in a moral sense
but there are parts of this country
where workers have had stagnant wages
and someone claims immigrants
have something to do with that.
You spoke earlier about how the broader economic
division exasperate that fear.
- There's two different questions there.
The one question is are wages stagnant?
Absolutely, and I think that people are being
encouraged to accept and not simply immigrants
a substandard living because of some economic policies
that really have nothing to do with immigration.
My experience is a lot of the work
that immigrants are doing
a lot of their people don't really want to do.
There was a sort of satirical film out
oh gosh, it's got be now 10, 15 years ago,
called A Day Without Mexicans.
You might remember it.
And it's where there's this sort of rapture experience
in California where all the Mexicans disappear.
And there's a convertible with our Lady of Guadalupe
in the front going down with the horn
playing La Cucaracha and there's nobody in it.
They're all gone.
And very quickly the economic life of California
falls apart.
I think you can make the same argument
with the garment industry and slaughter houses
and other portions of it.
So I think it's a bogus argument
that immigrants are taking jobs from other people,
but it's one that plays to people's fears.
- At a place like Georgetown we celebrate
the remarkable leadership achievement
of DACA students who've come to us.
We probably don't pay enough attention
to the people all around us
who don't have that status but to who clean
the classrooms and work in the,
what do we call the cafeteria now, dining hall,
leos I guess.
I mean one of the challenges I've always found
in Washington was your point,
that if you're willing to make your own bed
when you go to a hotel, bus your own dishes,
and take care of your own children,
and mow your own lawn maybe you could go down that road.
Let me push back a little bit.
There are some Catholics who say
this is all very interesting
but you have the wrong priorities.
There are more important issues,
more fundamental issues of life and death.
And then there are some who are even more direct,
Steven Bannon, formally of the administration,
a Catholic he says.
Said quite bluntly, the reason why the Catholic church
supports immigrants is because White people
are not going to church as much as they used to.
Some people have said the reason we support
refugees is because we have these programs,
the Archdiocese of Indianapolis,
gets money to resettle that family.
I'm being blunt here, but how would you respond to those?
- Well I would respectfully disagree.
(audience laughing)
- I am stunned.
- And I would say to someone like Mr. Bannon
what Ambrose Bierce said about Americans in general
in the mid 19th century.
He said war is God's way of teaching Americans geography.
In other words, if it isn't a tragic circumstance
like war, Americans can be oblivious,
and I'm one of them, can be oblivious
of what happens around the world.
Around the world the Catholic church
is welcoming refugees.
And they're welcoming them in places where arguably
the pews are full.
And not simply the Catholic church.
I would point to a country like Lebanon
that has I believe four million residents
plus two million refugees because they're right at the heart
of the violence of the middle east.
Now they, Greece, countries that have very small
or much weaker resources than the United States has
welcome these people and do their best to help them.
If you live in other countries
and return to the United States
you cannot help but be impressed by the hardness of heart
that is becoming ever more manifest in public discourse.
- I would invite our colleagues to come forward.
While you talk about that I mentioned my parish
and the challenge we face and it goes to this question
of who goes to church and where vitality comes from.
And we have a little parish in Prince Georges county
that is very diverse.
First mass times changed and that creates problems
in the parking lot.
That's the ultimate crisis for a parish.
And one of my friends, an old Anglo like me
came up and said, "What's happening to our parish?"
And I said, "Well it's being renewed."
He said, "What do you mean renewed?"
And I said, "Well they seem to do a lot of baptisms
"and we seem to do a lot of funerals."
(audience laughing)
We're not leaving but we are much more vital alive
community of faith.
We had the stations of the cross
and it used to be inside and very reverent
and half of it was in Latin and now our Latino parishioners
march through the streets of our little town
with the stations of the cross
and put up the three crucifixes.
Linda, my wife, comes home and says,
"There are three people hanging on crosses
"in front of the church."
I said, "Linda, it's Good Friday."
(audience laughing)
That's what happened.
So the vitality that you speak of,
speaking of the vitality, a good part of the vitality
of the Georgetown community comes from our diversity,
lots of different kinds of diversity.
But especially from people like our next two guests.
Miriam, let me get this right, you were born in Mexico,
your small town.
- Juventino Rosas, Guanajuato.
- Yeah, and you came when you were two years old?
- I was four year old.
- Four years old to Austin.
You grew up in Austin and now
you find yourself at Georgetown.
You're a sophomore.
You are working to defend other DACA students.
You're working in solidarity with some
of the worker's rights groups here at Georgetown.
You're a policy intern at United We Dream.
You're getting good grades.
We've talked about the story of immigrants
in the abstract.
Share you're journey with us.
- Hi everyone, my name is Mizraim Belman Guerrero,
and I was born in a small town in the state
of Guanajuato, in Mexico called Juventino Rosas.
And I grew up there for the first four years of my life.
I grew up with my mom, my older brother,
my grandparents and my dad had been working
in the U.S. for a couple of years now.
I remember my mom telling me that
because my dad would spend so much time
in the U.S. working and sending back money to us
that when he came to visit us,
when I was about two years old,
I didn't know who he was.
I did not want to hug him.
I did not want to say hi to him
because I really didn't know who this man was
that just came into our lives
for about a month and then left once again to the U.S.
So my parents began to see that separation
of our family had started
and we were growing up without a father.
So in 2003 around January 6th of 2003,
my mom, older brother and I crossed the border
without inspection and we then
got together with my dad in Austin, Texas.
And since then we grew up, my older brother and I,
like any other American citizen child would grow up.
We went to school.
I grew up in the public school system in Austin, Texas.
I went there since Pre-K to my senior year of high school
and at first I didn't realize
what it meant to be undocumented
and growing up being undocumented until 2011.
Back in 2011 my father was detained
and put into deportation proceedings
following an incident where a coworker of his
did not have a seat belt on
and they were stopped by the police
asked for documentation and while my father
did have a valid driver's license at the time
and had the car under his name.
Him and his coworkers were still all taken up
and ICE was called on them for them to be picked up
and then taken to a detention center.
So my father was in a detention center for about a month
in Pearsall Detention Center right outside of San Antonio.
Again, I was growing up without a father.
I did not know what to do,
and my dad was the sole breadwinner in our family.
And so I do not know how my mom made it through
with bills, with food, but she got us through it.
Unfortunately during that same time period
my grandmother passed away back in Mexico.
I had grown up with her for the first four years of my life
but now I was not able to say goodbye to her
one last time because of my immigration status.
Because we knew that if we returned
to pay our respects that we would not come back.
So my family made the tough decision of not returning
to Mexico when that happened.
And we just kept fighting,
we kept fighting for our place her in the United States.
I began to get involved with
an immigrant rights organization in 2013,
my sophomore year of high school
And that is really when I began to kick off my experience
with the immigrants rights community.
I began to get involved with rallies, with marches,
in any way that I could because I knew what happened
to my family was really difficult on us.
I knew that that reality is
someone not having their seatbelt away and being detained
because I didn't want people to end up in a similar
situation as mine.
So I continued to advocate.
Back in 2014, I along with my brother,
got the courage to speak up in front of
President Obama's speech in Austin, TX
and we heckled him and to our surprise
we did not get kicked out,
but instead we were invited to speak with him backstage.
So my brother and I at the time
we were fighting for a protective status
for parents of undocumented immigrants
like my mom and like my dad.
We were able to share with him our story
of what it meant to be an immigrant in the U.S.
with the fear of being in deportation proceedings,
the fear of going back to a country
that we did not really know and still don't know very well.
I've continued my advocacy here once I got to Georgetown.
It was an amazing opportunity that I did not expect
once I got my acceptance letter.
I cried, it was my top choice.
- [John] Of course it was your top choice.
(audience laughing)
- And so coming from a small town
where my parents didn't finish high school,
where my grandparents to this day
can't read or write, it's been really astonishing
and a pleasure to share the experience that I've had
here at Georgetown with my parents,
with my grandparents, letting them know
that their sacrifices have been worth it
and that we still are attempting to thrive here in the U.S.
And so now I've continued to be involved with
undocu Hoyas here on campus,
with the Georgetown Solidarity Committee,
with Hoya SACs Weakem, and various other organizations
to really continue to fight for my community
because it's not a battle yet won,
but I know we're going to get there.
- Everybody here is watching this debate unfold
if you can call it that.
What's it like to be in the middle of that
not in terms of your politics or your hopes and fears,
but your own life.
I mean how does it feel to be a political football?
- It doesn't feel good.
It is very scary.
I know that currently while I am protected under DACA,
the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program,
once I enter into my senior year in 2019,
I do not know if I will still have that protection.
My DACA work permit is set to expire in August of that year.
I can't plan for future with my degree
because I really just don't know what it's going to be like.
I don't know if going back to Austin
my parents will be detained
because there have been increased raids in Austin
as a retaliation for the sanctuary city policies
that have tried to be implemented in Austin.
I remember hearing my parents calling them
and saying, "Hey are you okay?
"Like everything's happening."
And my mom did not want to leave our apartment
for several days after she started to first hear
about reports of raids.
So I think for my life it's just a whole lot of uncertainty.
I don't know where I'm going to be
in two, three years down the road
if nothing concrete is passed.
- If this country finds a way as it should
to recognize you, your family, and your contributions,
what would you like to do after your Georgetown education.
- I think one of the first things I would love to do
is to travel.
I have not gotten to visit my hometown in 15 years now.
Unfortunately two of my grandparents have now passed away.
But I have two grandparents that I would love to visit
and to really give them my Georgetown degree.
This is for them, this is for their sacrifices.
This is for my family and to be able to really
validate their sacrifices would mean the world to me.
I know that study abroad is something
that everyone really thinks about in college
but currently that's not a reality for me.
So I think that would be great.
- Thank you for sharing your powerful story.
(audience and panel applause)
- Habon Ali is a senior and she's also in graduate school,
doing two things at once.
Good luck with that.
How does a young women who grows up in Somalia
end up in Eagan, Minnesota and at Georgetown?
What is your journey?
You've been active in the Muslim Student Association here.
You've been studying your heart out.
Could you share some of your journey?
- Yes so I was actually born in Kenya.
- [John] Oh I'm sorry, I got that wrong.
It's okay, but coming from a single family household
my mom was not educated.
She never went to elementary school
or any form of schooling.
For her, her priority in her life
was to educate specifically me, being her daughter
and my younger brother.
That meant doing anything possible.
Scrubbing, as you said your grandma scrubbed the floors
in the hospitals.
My mom did anything possible.
In Kenya the education systems public schools
are not necessarily where you would want your child to go
where there's no seating, there's no windows,
there's literally no space for even
to have any form of education.
So the only one that I could thrive in
is a form of what we know now here as
a semi-charter school.
And that cost money.
And for her she strived in that.
And when we got the chance to come to the United States.
We had that American dream.
That time where follow the yellow brick road
I guess you'd say.
But when we came here we realized that
there is no social safety net
for immigrants and refugees alike.
My mom had us and she was in a new environment,
in a new society, with no language basis,
with no education and no job.
That meant for a year and a half
we were living in people's houses.
We were living with family, relatives.
We were living with different people who are also
in the same circumstances.
After that process we ended up becoming homeless.
So in our eyes we came from poverty to poverty.
Seeing my mom go through that
was one of the hardest things to witness as a nine year old.
Because I moved here when I was eight in 2004.
That's three years after the impact of 9/11.
In the midst of everything,
seeing her courageous, and her strength,
and her faith in God to be able to come to a country
where she's already not validated as a Muslim woman,
but even then there's a stigma against her.
And to be able to strive and work against that
and we went into a shelter for a few months.
During that process I learned that the only thing,
and my mom will always tell me, that the only thing
that anyone cannot take away from you is your education.
And that's the one thing that will save you and save us.
And my journey to Georgetown is coming from that lens.
It's bringing back what my mom sacrificed
because it wasn't easy.
- That's powerful.
What is your experience, you know
there are different slices,
you're very much part of the Georgetown community.
You're now part of a country that is having
this incredibly polarized debate about your place
and your place in our society.
So you have some institutions that welcome you,
other institutions and leaders that seem to demonize you,
the church is trying to stand up,
other institutions are trying to stand up,
what do you think our leaders ought to do
and not do at this moment?
And I want to include Cardinal Tobin in this question?
- Okay, within the context of refugees and immigrants,
specifically majority of refugees and immigrants today
come from the middle east or from parts of Somalia
and other parts of Sub-Saharan Africa.
I think there needs to be a dialogue
with the communities that are impacted.
Not just for Photoshops where you have an immigrant
next to you and you're like, "Vote for me," and whatnot.
But really engaging with them at a grassroots level.
And getting to know these immigrant communities
especially coming from Minnesota there's a large
Muslim immigrant community in Minneapolis and in St. Paul
who don't have social network,
who don't have social welfare.
That is a conversation that I think
that our leaders need to have.
What they shouldn't be doing is using human lives
and human stories as a form of fear,
and as a form of isolation.
Because ever refugee and every immigrant
is not a terrorist.
They ran away from terror and using their stories
is terrorizing them essentially.
- [John] Mizraim?
- I think one thing that I would like to highlight
is to stop looking for the perfect immigrant story.
I think the immigrant experience is very broad
and very complex.
While we are fortunate enough to have those immigrants
that cure diseases that do these things,
there's a lot of immigrants like my mom
that are here, hardworking,
that don't go to school,
aren't going to be the one in the front page
discovering something brand new that has never been brought
to this world, but her life and her experience
are just as valid and she deserves human dignity
just like any of those immigrants.
I think that is one thing that would be a positive step
for the conversation is to shift,
to really be inclusive to all immigrant experience,
and to really look for those that are also not
at the most privilege positions.
I guess the reverse of that would be
to not only look for those perfect immigrants
and to really listen to everyone's story
because everyone has a different story
and everyone's story is just as valid.
We really need to look at those with other marginalized
identities because it is difficult to
try to strive already as an immigrant
but if the conversation is only focused on
Latinx immigrants and those resources are only going
to that community then there are a whole lot
of other immigrants that are left out of the conversation,
and left out of those resources.
- To build on that, there's enormous pressure
in order to get an agreement on DACA
to sort of look beyond the claims and the rights
and the dignity of other immigrants from Central America
to abandon family based immigration for so called
merit based immigration.
How does the church try and keep these things together?
- Well I'm not sure I can speak for the whole church.
I might say how do I try to keep it together.
I think there are people in the public square today
that are vaunting their proudness at making deals.
- [John] Anyone in particular?
- No.
(audience laughing)
But if we're going to sign off on a deal
we better understand what's really being exchanged.
I fully support a clean DACA bill.
And I think any sort of tit-for-tat on this one
is very dangerous and it will,
I think the administration is certainly setting its eyes
on bigger things.
If you look at the budget proposals
that are going to congress.
You look at the number of money that's going to be invested,
now we all hear about the famous wall,
but actually, at least as I recall, the border patrol
that actually works in that area
is not being envisioned as expanding.
It's ICE that's being expanding.
And ICE can only work in the interior of the country,
away from the borders.
If you look at the number of beds that are being asked for
in the budget projections,
it may not look like a great number
unless you factor those by 10.
Saying that 10 people can sleep in that bed
in a course of a year.
Because they're going to be moved on.
So I think that there is a great cry
in the debate these days.
Everybody has to compromise.
Well I think that we should draw some lines in the sand.
It's not being stubborn for the sake of being stubborn.
But that we would be giving away some essential hope
for human beings.
- And Mizraim do you have a question
for the Cardinal as we bring our conversion to a close?
- One of my questions is, how can we integrate
an allied ship with other faith groups
or faith organizations in this fight
for specially DACA students
and also immigrants and refugees?
- Thank you Hoban.
I really think Pope Francis offers and Dr. DeGioia
mentioned it in his introduction.
This notion of a culture of encounter.
That we're not going to put down a whole lot of litmus test
before I decide whether we can talk.
But that human beings and especially people who are coming
from a background of faith
have very similar notions about what is good.
And we meet each other doing good.
So I think that eagerness to go for us
in the Christian community to go out of ourselves
and reaching out to our Muslim community
or the Jewish community or yes even the unbelieving people,
or agnostic.
And say how can we meet each other doing good.
To me that will open new possibilities for us.
And I think recognizing the face and the voice
of others for who they are.
I used to work in a type of retreats
that were called Crucios, they're little weekend retreats.
Most of them were in Spanish but I did one in English once
and there was an African American guy on the team,
we became good friends.
I can tell you his name, his name was Oliver Washington III.
Oli, to his friends.
And Oli once said to me, "Joe do you love me?"
And I said, "Yeah, I love you Oli."
He said, "Does my being Black have anything to do with it?"
At the time I thought I gave the right answer.
I said, "Oh no, no, no, I don't even see that."
(audience laughing)
And Oli very kindly said, "That's my point."
(audience laughing)
"That's my point."
So I think we meet each other doing recognizing
the humanity and the particular gifts that make you you,
you know, but we can do good together.
- Thank you.
- [John] Mizraim?
- So the church being a world wide leader,
how do we begin those conversations with
fellow parishioners that aren't as engaged
or haven't had those experiences with migrants?
How does the church take those first steps
in creating this dialogue?
- Well I suppose there's a responsibility
for people that do what I do
to try and open the dialogue.
Knowing that our silence isn't simply neutral,
but it's leaving a wide open forum
for other voices that people are going to hear
or read everyday.
Now ultimately it's going to be up to you
whether you think what I say is true or not.
But I think we have to speak
on behalf and invite and say this isn't
just Joe Tobin's whimsy.
This is what is a constituent element of our faith
is justice, and the practice of justice.
So I think one thing that the church is more than bishops.
One thing that bishops can do is begin the conversation
and listen to people who are afraid or angry or determined,
and continue the conversation after that.
- At the end of the powerful conversation like this,
I think people are probably saying, "What can I do?
"I'm a student.
"I'm a member of the faculty.
"I'm a community leader.
"I'm an interested parishioner.
"I'm a citizen.
"I'm not a citizen."
Could you close with something specific that each of us
could do to express our solidarity with the stories
that we've heard to lift up the values
that you've described to protect human lives
and dignity at a time of great fear, uncertainty,
and even danger?
- I would say for the citizens here
a very practical step would be to call the senators
from your state as well as your representative
and advocate for a clean DACA act.
And just say that you don't compromise on that.
That's in the short term,
knowing that there are other things
that are coming down the pike.
But I think that it would be particularly tragic
listening to people who are most affected
by that legislation or the lack of it.
I think if I was an undocumented person
what I would ask is to not
cower before this terrible threat.
To let people of good faith know who you are.
That you're not simply a statistic.
That you have a story.
And I like when Mizraim said,
it's not always a perfect story.
I mean whoever's got a perfect story here
can stay afterwards and tell it.
(audience laughing)
But none of us have a perfect story.
But I can understand how when
you feel like you're in the spotlight
you think that's what's being required of you.
That's not a human existence.
So I think for the undocumented it would be just to
go out of yourself and reaching out to the people
of good faith to say who you are.
- Mizraim?
- I think one thing that is beneficial
to all of us in these times is really just
being informed, staying involved, staying active,
listening to what is happening nationally, locally.
Looking at policies that come about.
Really getting to know the stories
but also the policies that are affecting the community.
It's important to understand that there are bills
that are coming forward to protect the immigrant community
but there are also different ways that communities
are being targeted locally with 287(g) contracts,
or with secure communities.
And if people don't know what those things are
I would encourage you to look them up
because these are things that affect the immigrant community
everyday and if you aren't aware of these issues,
it's best to come into the conversation
with a good knowledge of what's happening.
A good understanding of what affects
immigrant's lives day to day.
- [John] Hoban?
- I would say what both of you said was excellent.
But in addition I think we live in a society
of very fast gratification.
So if we see something happen
that impacts a certain group of people
we post about it from my generations specifically,
or we just do things that are not necessarily effective
in the long run.
I would say that in one way we can try to mobilize empathy
at the local level.
Truly try to get to know the immigrants in your communities
in your churches, in your mosque or in your synagogues.
And even the refugees and the DACAs students as well
because that's the only way if you have a story
to this situation you will be able to actually
mobilize yourself and feel like
you're a part of that as well.
- Before I ask you to thank our powerful presenters
for sharing their journey.
I want to call attention to a couple of upcoming
conversations that may be of interest to people.
On February 13th, so a week from tomorrow,
the Initiative is hosting a session on the Francis factor
at five years, we're approaching five years
since the election of Pope Francis.
And we're deeply honored to have Father Anthony Spadaro,
a Jesuit, very close confidant, adviser to Pope Francis
and editor of the major Jesuit publication from the Vatican.
To talk about Pope Francis global vision
and then we have a conversation among
Kirsten Powers from CNN, Greg Erlandson
who's the editor-in-chief of Catholic News Service,
and Sister Norma Pimento who is doing remarkable work
on the U.S./Mexican border
on the issues that we've described.
So that is Tuesday, February 13th at 6 pm in Gaston.
And then our colleagues in Mission and Ministry
are having Greg Boyle on February 27th at 7 pm
here in the chapel.
If you're never heard Father Boyle talk about his work
you're missing something important.
I would like to thank all those
who made this Dahlgren Dialogue possible.
Especially our colleagues in Mission and Ministry,
Father Mark, Kate, and Jim.
My colleagues, Monica and Angela and our students.
And I want to thank President DeGioia
for his tremendous support of our work
but also the Dahlgren Dialogue by his presence
and by his passion.
Georgetown is serious about this issue.
Makes you proud to be a part of this community.
And I would ask you to join me
in thanking these powerful voices.
(audience applause)
- We would like to end our evening
with some petitions that will be read as our closing prayer.
And perhaps a rousing song to kind of bring us back
into the world so that we can do the good work
that we are called to do.
So I invite Jaclyn Martinez to come forward.
Please stand.
(speaking a foreign language)
- Let us pray for our world
that the threat of violence, famine and lack of hope
should no longer drive families
from the places they call home,
and the people who love them.
We pray to the Lord.
- [Congregation] Lord hear our prayer.
(speaking a foreign language)
- For our country that it will realize
the fullness of its promise as a refuge
for the threatened, the forgotten,
and the cast aside.
And that we celebrate the immensity of the lasting heritage
of the immigrants who contributed so much.
We pray to the Lord.
- [Congregation] Lord hear our prayer.
(speaking a foreign language)
- For the children and parents
who lost their lives fleeing their home countries
that their souls should find
everlasting comfort and peace in your blessed arms of mercy.
We pray to the Lord.
- [Congregation] Lord hear our prayer.
(speaking in foreign language)
- For the undocumented children
brought to this country
who have grown and succeeded here
and for whom this is their only home
that they may no longer live in fear
of having their dreams and hopes taken from them.
We pray to the Lord.
- [Congregation] Lord hear our prayer.
(speaking in foreign language)
- Let us pray for this community
that Georgetown live into the depths of its commitment
to be people for others
and come to the defense of those threatened
and oppressed by our society.
Recognizing that even amongst us
there are those who live in fear and isolation.
We pray to the Lord.
- [Congregation] Lord hear our prayer.
- Let us pray God of all
we lift our prayers to you with grateful hearts.
Remind us again of our own pilgrim journey
and kindle in us the passion and determination
for a wider and more just hospitality.
Aware your blessings we pray that our words
and deeds may express the wideness of your family
and the breath of your merciful embrace.
We pray this in your Holy name.
Amen. - [Congregation] Amen.
[Announcer] Please join us in singing
O God of Every Nation found in your program.
Verses one, two, and three.
♪ O God of every nation ♪
♪ of every race and land ♪
♪ redeem the whole creation ♪
♪ with your almighty hand ♪
♪ Where hate and fear divide us ♪
♪ and bitter threats are hurled ♪
♪ in love and mercy guide us ♪
♪ and heal our strife-torn world ♪
♪ From search for wealth and power ♪
♪ and scorn of truth and right ♪
♪ from trust in bombs that shower ♪
♪ destruction through the night ♪
♪ from pride of race and station ♪
♪ and blindness to your way ♪
♪ deliver every nation ♪
♪ eternal God, we pray ♪
♪ Lord, strengthen those who labor ♪
♪ that all may find release ♪
♪ from fear of rattling saber ♪
♪ from dread of war's increase ♪
♪ When hope and courage falter ♪
♪ Lord, let your truth be heard ♪
♪ with faith that none can alter ♪
♪ your servants undergird ♪
- Thank you very much and all are welcome to join us
in Riggs Library for reception following this.
Thank you.
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