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Practical Guide Webinar 3 Using Qualitative Methods to Collect and Analyze Your Data 20180509 1745 H - Duration: 1:00:26.

welcome everyone to the third of four webinars on interprofessional

collaborative practice program evaluation all of which are based on the

National centers practical guide number five incorporating IPCP teamwork

assessment into program evaluation welcome back to all of you who joined us

for our first two webinars and we are equally delighted to welcome those of

you who are dialing in for the first time so as many of you already know the

National Center is a jointly accredited provider of interprofessional continuing

education credits for the healthcare team this statement describes the nature

of this presentation and the one hour of continuing education credit available to

those who selected that option at the point of registration if you have

questions about continuing education please let us know in the chat box and

we will answer them at the close of this webinar this slide states that our

presenter Barret Michael Locke does not have a conflict of interest in this

presentation my name is Connie Schmitz and as many of

you already know I am a consultant working with the National Center and the

lead author of practical guide 5 it's my really great pleasure to introduce you

today to a wonderful co-author of this guide and today's presenter Michael

Barrett McCulloch Barrett is an associate professor in the Department of

Sociology and the associate dean of interprofessional education in the

College of Health Sciences at the University of Delaware in this role he

has spent the better part of last year designing the interprofessional and

interdisciplinary curriculum thread for health pre professionals at the

University he also serves as the director of the center for

interprofessional development education and research additionally he holds an

adjunct research professors position with the Sydney Medical College at

Thomas Jefferson University his research primarily focuses on the socialization

and professionalization processes within the Health Professions

he is passionate about qualitative methods for ite CP evaluation and we are

delighted to have him built on our previous webinars by discussing the when

why and how of applying these methods to the evaluation design data collection

and analysis I know that I will personally learn from something from him

today and I hope you do as well and with that Barrett I will pass the ball to you

all right excellent Thank You Connie and also thank you for

it to Angela and Stephanie from the National Center for all their time and

effort and support with this I also want to thank the National Center for its

support with putting together a guide number five and creating these

opportunities for us to dive a little deeper into these key aspects so welcome

to everyone and Connie is right I am very passionate about qualitative

methods and I think that's going to come out in a lot of these slides and some of

the things I talked about hopefully I don't move too quickly but we are in a

time limit and there's a lot of things to talk about so once again this series

of webinars is an opportunity for us to dive a little bit deeper in the key

aspects of the guide number five unfortunately we didn't have enough

space to really go too far in depth about qualitative methods or any

specific real you know methodological input in approaches so this provides

that opportunity here here's a breakdown of the contents of guide number five and

this is probably a slide you've seen before we're going to go down and talk

about parts mostly two and three today so hopefully we'll get through that

here's the learning objectives for the day of course given our time limit we'll

simply cover some of the basics and fundamentals but I do want all of you to

consider me a kind of a personal resource I know that may seem odd but I

know there aren't a ton of people out there doing qualitative methods and

qualitative data analysis within IPE and I PCP evaluation and assessment so

please consider me a resource from here on out there's a Q&A session at the end

and there's also the upcoming short course at the next summit and I'll be

there as well but also always available via email or dance

or any questions about qualitative methods in general or personal project

reviews that type of stuff so I teach qualitative methods at the undergraduate

but also the graduate level and at the professional level I give a number of

seminars to clinicians and providers but at the graduate level we cover classes

that are you know the basic level and then another whole semester course on

advanced qualitative methods so trying to fit this in with an hour is going to

be a bit of a heavy lift but I think we're going to be able to get through

some some key points here's the agenda for today we're going to talk about some

evaluation plan components review some basic qualitative methods that are

commonly used in IPE and IPC P evaluation and assessment I'm going to

provide two specific examples and provide the reasoning behind utilizing

qualitative methods for those and then we're going to discuss the real

fundamentals of qualitative data analysis that's going to be a pretty

unique section we're also going to do a little bit of a deeper dive into

grounded theory which I know some of you may be interested in a spoiler alert not

everything is grounded theory so we'll be talking about that as well you might

have seen this slide before if you participate in the other webinars these

are the components for the evaluation plan when thinking about qualitative

methods specifically we have to take many aspects of the context and the

design into consideration before we even begin because these factors will impact

not only if we utilize qualitative methods to evaluate and assess but which

methods specifically how will utilize them who will lead in the evaluation and

assessment what type of data we'll get and how we'll be able to analyze that

data like with any evaluation and assessment protocol or project your

Guiding evaluation questions need to be refined and specific from the get-go but

also you have to be fairly flexible in order to move around and I think this

the 15 questions and decisions that you probably have seen other side you

probably seen before you know it really helps to point that out

each of these questions are important when considering quality to methods for

your evaluation assessment and they should be mapped out beforehand but also

you have to remain flexible one of the beauties of qualitative methods is that

you're going open up a lot of cans of worms and

that's important because when you're doing that when you're scraping below

the surface and you're really digging in you're exploring things that you may not

have known was going on or that was happening or perspectives of attitudes

that you weren't aware of and in doing so that will impact your evaluation

guiding questions but also questions related to context design and logistics

so you have to be flexible with qualitative methods I think this is

probably one of the best resources you can utilize and again you're going to

mark it up and you're going to be flexible with it but the evaluation

planning tool is an extremely useful mechanism to utilize in order did I set

your potential qualitative approach the tool allows the team to examine what it

is you know quote on is what it is they're actually interested in exploring

where that is is or where they think it is and the best way to extract that is

that data so all of these things are very important and again sometimes

usually utilizing qualitative methods you don't really know what you're

looking for until you get in there there we go so some of you may have seen this

cartoon before it's always utilized when people are talking about qualitative

methods when why do we utilize qualitative methods well when were you

when they're utilizing with IP and IP CP evaluation/assessment

it's because we often know that participants whether those participants

be students providers patients patients families faculty they all have a story

right so when we're evaluating programs and teamwork we all know that people

have a story they have a perspective they have experiences they have

attitudes their beliefs views understandings and a lot of times scales

just can't get at that stuff no matter how good the scale is how about it is

how reliable it is how often it's been utilized it really doesn't get at

everything there are elements of programs that are essential to an

effective evaluation assessment program that must be observed or experienced to

be understood and we really need that on the ground in the trenches perspective

and oftentimes qualitative methods are the best approach to getting at those

those line item questions even like in scales you know can't really detect

qualitative methods help us dig deeper too

get underneath the surface to explore the broader context one of the things

that happens a lot with evaluation/assessment is no matter how

good our protocol is we tend to forget that these programs plan these

initiatives and the intervention don't exist in the vacuum there's a larger

context and culture that surrounds them and we also need to understand that and

how they may be impacting what we're trying to study and what we're trying to

evaluate we can help us identify and examine issues that we hadn't thought

about it helps us foster connections and honestly it qualitative methods provide

voice really a lot of times that we kind of just forget that participants are

more than data points and so we need to understand the voices in the perspective

of those engaged in the program and in the initiatives in interventions that

we're trying to explore and evaluate there's a humanist and a humanism to

qualitative method that because we are you know face to face in with

qualitative methods often with interviews or observations or focus

groups but it can make us feel a little bit uncomfortable and messy sometimes

people think that qualitative method is a little too touchy-feely and that may

lend to a lack of validity which is not true at all but neglecting that

humanists in the humanism of it especially with evaluation that can be

kind of cut and dry sometimes really doesn't allow us to get that good data

that we need qualitative is qualitative approaches allow us to see how the

pieces fit together and also help us tackle big ambiguous topics like success

an impact because honestly what may be success to you may not be success to

whoever is engaged in the program and so we need to understand what that is what

are we actually trying to find out if a program we're evaluating a program if

it's working or not what is working mean for all the participants so here are the

fundamentals of certain people are saying to move a little closer to

microphone I will do that I apologize there we go hopefully that's better the

fundamentals of certain qualitative methods and so I've highlighted the ones

that are utilized most frequently in evaluation assessment those are

interviews focus groups and observations interviews are you know the respondent

is asked a series of questions where they

to the project or the protocol there are differences between structured

semi-structured and unstructured structured interviews you have an

interview guide which is your list of questions right and you follow those to

the letter and you ask all of your participants the exact same questions a

semi-structured you still have your interview guide but you allow

participants and respondents to go off a little bit and you allow to explore what

they may be saying you may add some questions here or there you may add some

refine questions all right that may be going on unstructured you're going in

there you're just gonna let yours gonna bring up a topic and you're gonna have a

discussion right in that sense you can also conduct interviews over the phone

you can do them in person in a new way that people have been

utilizing more and more often and maybe some of you are used to this is online

like through Skype or FaceTime or things like that

I prefer in-person because I like to read body language and facial effect

which i think is important also you can judge pauses a little bit better when

you're doing face to face or even you know online focus groups are often very

popular those are where groups of individuals are led to read three

questions and scenarios by a researcher or by the PI of the evaluation protocol

they can also be structured semi-structured or unstructured you have

to be very careful about who you're involving in your focus groups in terms

of power and authority dynamics especially during evaluation and

assessment so that's something to really plan out beforehand so you wouldn't want

to have a student and perhaps an attending

you know in the same same like same same group also in terms of different

professions that can be a challenge as well due to nested hierarchy amongst the

health occupations so those are things to think about observations the

researcher observes individuals or groups or just groups of individuals in

their natural kind of setting whatever you're trying to observe whether it be

an intervention that's on the ground or interactions could also be observing a

setting and just seeing what the happenings are there it could be a full

participant in terms of participant observation you could be engaged in the

actual program as a faculty member or as a learner and be doing the observations

but could also be completely removed from

the program and observing from an outsider perspective being a complete

observer content analysis there at the bottom is also pretty commonly used

that's where you're analyzing text instead of gathering information from

people and by text I mean something very broadly you could be using emails or

books or pamphlets that describe particular courses but also music lyrics

of videos type of pictures those types of things all of that is considered

content journals are fairly popular lately in terms of having students keep

personal journals or having patients keep personal journals during

experiences in terms of evaluation it's a little tough to analyze it takes a

little practice with those Auto ethnography is extremely challenging and

I really only recommend that for those who are very well versed in kind of

ethnography in general but then also qualitative methods overall because that

can involve interviews observations focus groups as well as you're being a

complete participant observer so that's a little bit more challenging the key

with all of these methods however is something that see right Mills used to

say which was sociology allows you to make the familiar strange right and so

these methods allow you to do that right when you're digging beneath the surface

you're actually questing questioning the familiar questioning the normative

things that we take for granted you're going to explore those types of things

and that's what qualitative methods allow us to do what you need to ask

yourself before embarking on this though is when is it a good time to utilize

interviews observations and focus groups and that's where that evaluation plan

comes in really well so you knowing the fundamentals of those methods you can

say oh this might be an attempt there's a good opportunity to utilize these

methods and why those over surveys right if surveys are quick and dirty they're

usually cheap with and you can get a whole smattering of a sample with

qualitative methods your sample is going to be pretty small usually because it's

time-consuming its effort consuming and it's also cost it cost a ton to do these

things sometimes and I mean that honestly in terms of transcription

services and whether or not you compensate subjects organizing time for

people when they have time for work and you have to compensate that maybe even

your own time as a researcher or perhaps even a

clinician or a faculty member you had to buy out your own time to engage in these

kind of heavy methods and that's the truth so they can be pretty expensive so

a lot of people don't do them for those reasons but also not feeling very

comfortable with them qualitative methods require a vulnerability and an

intimacy that can feel awkward if you're not used to them because you have to be

open to the data and open to your participants I've also put down at the

bottom before I change the slide the tools that we often utilize and one of

the things I want to make sure that I emphasize is that you yourself when

you're doing qualitative methods are a research tool you are a filter you know

whether you are they're asking questions in terms of a focus groups or interview

or conducting observations yourself but also you yourself are a filter in terms

of the data you are getting not just through interpretation but from the

other people or persons that are interacting with you whether they're

answering questions you and all your trappings are a filter in terms of what

happened and that is important to understand sampling is also a big issue

we're doing with qualitative methods you know who do you sample why is it

important how do you get to them feasibility issue again so these things

are important to think about and that evaluation plan that grid that I showed

earlier that's really important to utilize this is probably my favorite

slide of all time I love this slide so I've never actually put this on a slide

but I asked this question all the time I get asked to do a lot of projects with

provide with clinicians healthcare professionals and those that are

involved in faculty at medical schools nursing schools and they say you know

they bring me on to do the qualitative aspects of their evaluation and

assessment and it's great because the biggest question is are you experienced

have you had an opportunity to be formally trained in qualitative methods

and I mean that have you taken a series of classes in qualitative data gathering

and in qualitative data analysis and if you haven't it's a really good idea to

utilize your resources utilize those that have it's not you wouldn't ask

someone without any training and quantitative methods or statistical

analysis to run a factor analysis for you it's like you wouldn't ask someone

to go run marathon that hadn't been you know

running distance for a little while at least it's just not gonna work and it

might get hurt right and you might really get terrible data so my advice to

everyone is really do a self check before you embark on this and say do I

have the training to be capable of doing this type of of these methods in this

type of valuation assessment and if not try to find someone who does whether you

assess your kind of social science department that might be around campus

or your education departments or actually go out and get the training

yourself it's a good question to ask one more thing before we kind of dig just a

little bit deeper I put this right in the start always show your work with

qualitative methods keep meticulous notes in every step that you take and I

mean that from the moment you start to utilize qualitative methods you say I'm

going to do interviews okay well why all right so you start mapping that out you

map out your sampling frame you map out how you're going to do that that helps

with an IRB protocol but then also this will help when you start writing it up

for any kind of publication or white paper or whatever your evaluation and

assessment protocol is going to turn into right you've got to keep notes on

and all decisions and all steps from the very start

you want to write meticulous and specifically detailed notes on all of it

it's very important especially related to data analysis and interpretation all

right so I'm going to start with some examples from my own work and I picked

these examples because these in my opinion are actually really reflective

of the fundamentals of why we utilize qualitative methods so I've provided a

site at the bottom there and I'm just going to run through this relatively

quickly and provide some background so this particular project was an

evaluation of on a specific program at Thomas Jefferson the health mentors

program and we were interested in kind of exploring specific things that we

didn't think were present in previous attempts to evaluate similar programs so

students perceptions of IPE programs in their attitudes of abilities of other

health professions and in of IP in general the findings were mixed in the

literature right some programs we're having a positive impact somewhere not

and most of them were utilizing scales and we thought that kind of lacked the

in-depth understanding of really what we were trying to explore

of the qualitative studies that looked at those issues there was limited

sampling and by that I mean they were sampling post enrollment only or the

impact of one single event or one single program or a non required program they

gathered the data at only one time so there was a lack or at least a fairly

good lack of longitudinal evidence and there was also a lack of exploring that

broader picture again this perception that programs just exist in a vacuum

well what is it about the program but also what is it around the program right

that was happening within the institution within the students lives

that could be impacting these attitudes and perceptions right if we don't

explore that we might be missing key factors so the health mentors program

for those of you who not aware they have done the revamping recently of this

program so this was when we did the project this is what the program looked

like it's a two year longitudinal IPE program required for first the first two

years of training for med nursing pharmacy ot PT and couple and Family

Therapy there are student groups and they're mixed by profession they're led

by a patient from the community with one or more chronic conditions and some of

your institutions they have a similar program like this the students work the

student groups work with a community member help navigate health care system

life with the illness various facets of day-to-day they learn more about each

other in informal informal ways and the program was doing quite well according

to their previous research the previous evaluation and assessment had shown that

was mostly survey based it had shown there was a positive impact from this

program on attitudes and perceptions but we they were interested in exploring a

little bit of why that was so now what was it about the perceptions and

attitudes that the students had what was the bigger picture that was going on the

larger context that could be impacting how Wow why were they turning positive

and what was the students experience with the program but also with into

professionalism as it existed at Thomas Jefferson at that point I like to

utilize the iceberg metaphor in terms of understanding why we utilize qualitative

methods surveys can really help you understand if attitudes or perceptions

change the if write that can give you oh yeah this scale tells us it did change

but quality methods help us go below the surface

right we can see what are the factors in and around the program that are

impacting these possible changes and how do they work and that was really the key

thing right that's where the why and the how our so for our evaluation assessment

protocol and why qualitative methods were essential we wanted to get at that

how and why and and the what actually as well so to address of our objectives and

what we felt were gaps in the previous literature we went a little bit more in

depth with our evaluation assessment we utilize the I apologize for all the

words on this slide I know it's a big no-no with PowerPoint but it allows me

to get to my point we utilize the following sampling methodological

approach so we had 20 students randomly selected from six different health

disciplines one of the questions you could ask yourself and if we have time

later on I can answer them is why why only 20 students right there is far more

students that were involved in this program why only 20 students and how was

the sampling from each of the health disciplines decided now I've given you

the citation for that particular article that describes that but I can go more in

depth later on we did in depth semi-structured interviews at the ends

of year 1 of the program and year two of the program 39 of the 40 interviews were

conducted over the phone and one interview was conducted in person and I

can tell you right now immediately I was disappointed that I had to do them over

the phone and not in person because I would have loved to seen the students

perspectives also you might have noticed that maybe we're missing a group that we

should have interviewed maybe we should have been interviewing the community

member as well to get their perspective maybe we should have interviewed the

faculty when you're engaging in qualitative message you have to think

about that sampling frame go back to your evaluation plan and say okay what

are we really looking for here what it why is that important so the students

were asked I put those in the box they're these types of topics these

types of questions like I said it was semi structured so we allow the students

to talk more about things we wanted to know what it was about the program yes

but also what could it be around and about the program as well so I'm going

to talk a little bit about the the analysis of the data a little bit later

on and I'm going to move through the example to kind of provide an

understanding of where why the quality the methods are utilized

in these instances but of course like I said I'll answer some questions at the

end as well so moving to the next example this is a more IP CP approach

barriers to and facilitators of interprofessional interdepartmental

interventions unearthing department culture and I provide the site there as

well this was in collaboration with our affiliated healthcare healthcare

delivery institution and it was a it was extremely interesting project so once

again the evaluation assessment of a particular IP GP programs had mostly

been focused on one clinical setting be the approach to exploring interventions

and their impact or success I thought was in our team thought was limited in

terms of what it was sampling who was sampling and the lack of longitudinal

approaches and also a lack of context and culture because we know again these

programs don't exist in the vacuum what else could be going on that's impacting

the success or improvement of these initiatives the intervention was

designed to enhance transporting care from patients from the IDI to the Mick

you so we were interested in the transition itself but also of the

perspectives of the intervention of those in it those on the ground the

clinicians and providers that were involved in this process so to explore

the intricacies of the interprofessional interdepartmental teams as personnel

from the IDI and Mick you began working together we engaged in a kind of a

longitudinal approach and what we wanted to do was really explore this specific

intervention and the perspectives attitudes and context of that

intervention so what had done what they had done at this institution was

redesign how they transport a patient's from the 'i deeds of NICU right so they

created this Mickey Weller team or mat in a comprised of a nurse and a

physician assistant from the Mick you responsible for the quick response to

the notification sent from the IDI now this is a little unique and why I

provided this slide is that this wasn't how it works before before when patient

when they IDI wanted a transport they would call to make you and they would

say hey you know come down here check it out and some of you probably notice a

lot better than I do being a sociology I'm not involved in this all the time

but what ends up happening with this particular dis intervention was that now

the IDI had the authority to activate this Mickey will alert team whenever it

wanted whenever it thought it was it was necessary and the mcubed team had to

come down before they would come down and think man maybe maybe not and they

could leave here they had to come down and the Matt response the IDI they

receives a bedside face-to-face handoff from the IDI team and then they assume

that make you alert him assume total responsibility for the patient's care

under the supervision of the Mickey attending so this they would even stay

until Abed was ready the Mickey team would stay in the IDI until the bed was

ready up in the Mickey so this changed a lot of different

things and some of you again who are clinicians and practitioners are

probably like oh yeah I could see what's going on I had no idea what this really

meant I was just interested in understanding the context the

perspective the attitudes of the program itself but what ended up happening and

I'll talk about a little bit of later was really we we unearthed cultural

differences that I had no idea about just by asking questions about

perceptions we unearthed like department cultures that had such an impact on this

initiative that it almost slowed the whole thing it almost brought it to a

stop at one point and that was really important we hadn't utilized qualitative

methods we wouldn't have understood how bad it was getting for the people on the

ground keep on wanting to use a certain button to change these slides I

apologize okay so understand we sought to understand the barriers and

facilitators to this transportation interesting the actors perceptions how

did this happen does it work what could things that could be happening or

hurting and we're using utilizing the alert team as a kind of conduit to

understand that so again we could utilize surveys and believe me the

clinicians on this team the providers on this team were very interested the

number one thing that came out of this was that it did improve the transport

and patient outcomes and they had there's a whole other paper about that

that came out so they were interested in time of transport and patient outcomes

those things could be measured by quantitative outcomes by survey methods

by exploring time and all those things but what about the context the

environment the department culture the people involved how did that impact

though that time and those patient outcomes and the whole process of it we

needed qualitative methods to engage in that so we engaged in a series of focus

groups to explore those issues and we we looked at the attitudes of providers

regarding the initiative and what was working what was working well what

wasn't now this is what's important when you're consulting focus groups so notice

that we conducted the focus groups with the folks from the IDI separately then

the focus groups with the McCue staff and I'm sure maybe all immediately

understand like oh that was a good idea well I thought from my perspective again

they're working together and they may not enjoy working together and we're not

going to get at that if we have a focus group that it combines all of them

together right so if you're trying to assess an IPE program and you're looking

for perceptions attitudes and experiences from students that are from

nursing PT ot and you want to know how they enjoy working together well you're

not going to want to throw them all on the batch because they may have some

things to say about some people that they don't want others to hear right so

we wanted their unique perspective so we arranged them separately and we did it

at two different times one was one month after the implementation of the

intervention and we conducted three separate focus groups and then we did

another one at t2 which was six months after t1 as it's very similar questions

followed up on questions or things that it was on earth during t1 and we again

we did three separate focus groups there to each of the focus groups lasted about

60 minutes and here's another key aspect to think about it was led by two or more

of the study team members I was always leading the focus groups but I always

had a clinician and a provider with me to help translate and what I mean is in

terms of words that were being used about the process that I didn't

understand that would affect the questions I would ask and so that was

important also they had a in ground knowledge of the people that were there

they knew the personality so they knew if someone was going to start to

commandeer the focus group they knew also how to kind of navigate that that

sensitive way of pushing the question off to people who may not talk because

of the particular occupation because of relationships those sets of things are

important again utilizing your resources is very

important when you're doing focus groups and knowing who you're inviting it's

very important as well all right like I said I'm going to talk a little bit

about data analysis today and I want to make sure that we have enough time for

that hopefully I didn't move too quickly in terms of the why and the when

utilizing qualitative methods and those two examples and again I'm looking at

the time and I think we're going to have a good amount of time for for Q&A so

again I can go more in-depth after that but I do want to provide just a nice

teaser into data analysis which some of you may not be familiar with or maybe

some of you are but I think it's very important and this will be a bit of a

heavy lift hence the the icon there and I apologize

up front if I move too fast I'm going to cover some of the fundamentals but I

want to provide you with enough detail so that you feel comfortable embarking

into these waters on your own I'm also providing a number of resources through

citations on the slides that I consider to be essential reading for doing

qualitative data analysis excellent citations when you're writing up

analysis sections or methodology sections in your own white papers or

program reports evaluation reports or even publishable papers so feel free to

utilize those as well and again I'm also a good resource to utilize so moving

forward when we're talking about analysis we're talking about coding

often these terms are utilized interchangeably so analysis for

quantitative qualitative methods is often referred to as coding but what is

it well codes are labels that assigns symbolic meaning to the descriptive or

inferential information compiled during a study that's I'll break it down I

promise they are attached to data chunks of varying size and can be

straightforward and quite descriptive labels or maybe even more complex from

metaphor esque I tend to utilize the metaphor esque approach but let me back

up what I mean by data chunks and some of you who work with qualitative or

qualitative data are probably aware of what I'm talking about but for example

let's say you have a transcript of an interview so you've conducted an

interview you may be you audio recorded you've gone ahead and had

someone transcribe that audio recording for you whether it's a professional

service that you go outside for or maybe it's someone you have working for you

whatever you do it yourself and you've transcribed that audio recording

verbatim of the interview so now you're going through that interview you're

looking at all that data and you're looking at you're saying I'm interested

in looking at conflict that's something I'm interested in looking at a potential

conflict within this intervention so you'll go through and you'll look at the

data and you'll try to identify the chunks of that data maybe it's a couple

pair maybe it's one paragraph maybe it's two lines maybe it's one line maybe it's

two pages where respondent has talked about what you think is conflict so

you've interpreted a series of data as relating to the idea that you have of

conflict in a sense what you have done there you Circle it you write conflict

in the margins and you have now coded a chunk regardless of what size of that

data as reflective of concept of conflict excuse me so you can say like

these can be are a super assigning symbolic meaning to the descriptive or

inferential because you inferred information compiled during that study

you've attached it to a data chunk and you've been straightforward to some

extent with that conflict but you have to really define what that code is and

we'll go about that in a second with a code you are actually capturing what

we'll call the essence of that chunk of data and it's a form of interpretation

every aspect every stage of analysis is interpretation in quality with

qualitative data so when you're coding you can actually move forward and have

that that consistent analysis coding is a form of data reduction and it's

actually a form of simplification it can be very basic unfortunately what's

happened is we see a lot of that in the in publications lately where people are

using very basic approaches to qualitative data analysis but it should

be more sophisticated so think about this way if you saw a paper on that was

utilizing quantitative method and the entire methods and results

section maybe just they just gave you mean median and mode you probably

consider that to be not a good paper so think about the same way in terms of

data analysis when we're just coding at the surface level and you're only giving

us that that's not going to be a very well interpreted paper that's not going

to be a really sophisticated paper and we'll go over some things of how we can

get make it more sophisticated one key to remember the coding is analysis but

it's just one aspect of analysis it's not V I'll talk more about that what I

mean by that in a second you want to be able to build the relationships and

uncover themes its the linkages between the codes between the data that's the

key that's the next step so coding I said is analysis if it's only one aspect

the other almost more important aspect is when you start to combine those

linkages when you start to see how the data connects when you're uncovering

those themes and patterns and categories codings codes are organizing principles

that are not set in stone they're not static so I talked about being

vulnerable being intimate being fluid these things are extremely important not

just when you're conducting the methods but also when you're conducting the data

analysis we move forward here so here's a good what I think a good list of key

phrases and terms that we utilize we're talking about coding or analysis right

so there's deductive coding and deductive coding is where you're

utilizing a list of concepts or topics that are coming from a predetermined

framework so maybe you have a series of guiding evaluation questions that have

key concepts or terms that you're interested in exploring so you're

interested in exploring professional identity formation right and you might

already know that or you might know that through previous research professional

identity formation is a key outcome for the program you're evaluating so you

want to go ahead you're going to use that as a deductive code right you're

going ahead ahead of time with that and maybe some other things like

interprofessional identity maybe solidarity teamwork these types of big

broad codes that you're going to go into your data already have these codes in

mind that's deductive right now an inductive

approach also known as open coding to some extent because you're open to the

data you're allowing the data to speak to you write the codes emerge

progressively through data collection right so also when you're interviewing

or doing your focus groups or doing your observations things are coming to light

as you're collecting that data but also when you're reviewing that data when

you're reading it right when you begin your analysis you said so this is

starting to come up I'm starting to see issues related to humanism or empathy or

psychological safety you know key things that we might be interesting that we

didn't really know we're going to be there oh this is starting to come

together right that's more inductive coding you're going to consistently

revise your codes and then I mean that you're not you're not going to stick

with your codes codes will decay and what I mean by that is you might go

through a couple of transcripts a couple of data points and you'll be like oh

this is a great codes fantastic Wow I'm really getting some good stuff and then

all of a sudden transcripts 10 through 25 have no evidence of that at all and

it the code itself has decayed right they also refine so you might start off

with something like professional identity formation but then you'll

refine it to have a series of other underlying either sub codes or just more

definition to it what you mean by professional identity formation or what

it relates to and you have to adapt to the data as the analyzer you have to

adapt that I cannot stress enough how important it is to not force your codes

you have to be open you have to be vulnerable to this and I know I'm using

these touchy-feely words that may not feel comfortable but I tell you it's the

best way to get used to this all right you have to be open you can't force

things a coding scheme is the conceptual web of how codes relate to one another

but also they're fuller meanings also I would say meh mowing and jotting

is one of the most important things you can possibly do with coding when I

receive my transcripts you know I used to code back in the day with colored

pencils I would use a specific color or a code and then I would go through my

transcripts and I would oh here's here's this point you know here's empathy and

I'd highlight that and I'd write apathy in the side and I'd have a

codebook that would be color-coordinated that became very time-intensive

so now I've gotten to a point where I just use pen I circle chunks of data I

write the code on the side and then I write notes as well and be like well

this might connect to such-and-such but I also keep a legal pad to my right

or my left and I start to make notes about what I'm seeing in the data all

right so this is a really important about mem owing and jotting it's

extremely porting kind of keeps a running tally it helps you stay detailed

but also keeps a running tally of what you're doing and a codebook of course

keep one make a list of your codes and what they mean it's very important so

what is coding and so here a couple of citations that I I'm really strongly

advocate for am I use these in my classes all the time I use them

personally in terms of citations but also reference materials referring back

to certain processes according to miles in vermin and saldaña there are cycles

of coding they break them down into two cycles first cycle which is working with

chunks of data and then second cycle which is more refined I like to call it

kind of break and rocks and then refining diamonds the issue to think

about they do a really nice job of mapping this out in terms of its first

cycle is breaking rocks second cycle is really getting more refined when you're

going through data analysis you're actually going through a series of first

cycles and a series of second cycles it's really important to remember that

it's not just oh I'm done with first Lego let's move on it's not like that

they do a way of identifying and categorizing them well but it's really

an ongoing process that you have to continually work with now this next

slide and this is where I said it was a bit of a heavy lift it can be a bit

overwhelming and to be fair a part of me wanted it to be this is again utilizing

those citations this is just what Miles uberman and

Saldana the key people in the field in terms of writing the book on data

analysis for qualitative methods actually lists as just the types of

types of strategies of first cycle coding you can see all the different

times that we go through right and sometimes you utilize some of these

strategies you know interchangeably with others you might switch from process to

value of course you're going to utilize

evaluation coding but to be honest in a little ticket trick of the trade here is

it's very rarely even in sociological literature even in the highest end of

qualitative journals you will not always see people be so specific about the

strategy they utilized in first or second coding now some do don't get me

wrong some do and I think that's fantastic and I think it's very helpful

to be so specific but because you switched so often especially if you're

doing inductive coding you may be engaging in something and then switch to

another type of method like in vivo coding which you're really coding in

terms of people's voices in the tone and things like that you may quickly switch

to emotion coding and you may not be like I did this for 20 minutes than I

did this that's not how it works but I did want to show you all the different

types and synergies for just the first cycle of coding according to the key

people in the field so again it helps you break those rocks these are all

methods utilized breaking rocks I do want to bring up a couple real quick

though not all of them by any means I don't have time for that

but I do want to bring up a couple so causation coding right under procedural

which is the type look at the why particular outcomes come about right so

this is very useful in terms of evaluation and assessment your mapping

pathways between your making connections between your codes as well and it's also

excellent for grounded theory which I will talk about in a little bit right to

foster those connections there's magnitude coding which is under

grammatical so this is kind of what I would call my arch-nemesis in the

clinical role when I when I do a lot of evaluation assessment for healthcare

delivery professionals I think this is more of a supplemental work but

oftentimes it gets published and honestly sometimes when I put forth a

manuscript to a key clinical journal and enhance qualitative methods they demand

that I provide them a frequency count of particular words or phrases so I might

say you know this clearly has weight this team emerged I would give them all

the analysis of how I identified it but then they come back and say well how

often did it did it people talk about it how often did it come up explicitly in

the conversation now from my perspective and I'm sure you've heard others say

this just because something is said or happened the number times and

make sure it's important or quote-unquote significant or actually

impactful to the program right but you can do a frequency analysis of specific

words if you are interested now some of you may be interested in a deductive

approach that utilizes that and that's perfectly well and good there's no

problem with that right and that's fine and I'll actually

show you something I did with with this magnitude coding but it is kind of more

of a frequency analysis of sorts sub coding is something that you're

consistently going to do you have a major code and then in the process of

refining you'll see other things kind of come out of that I'll just get more

specific it'll be you know empathy related to patience empathy related to

colleagues that kind of stuff those are sub coding so you have two different sub

codes there on the code of empathy there's also simultaneous coding where

the overlap occurrence of two or more codes on a data chunk that's going to

happen all the time and that's where you start developing those connections and

those patterns because you say oh wait this relates to this right so it takes a

kind of a trained eye on that one but people can do it get your hands dirty

with the data and you can find that second cycle according to these

colleagues you're finding the patterns your reoccurring categories you're

looking for your pattern codes the things that are coming out that are

connecting it's the connective tissue is that you're coding out here you're

looking for the threads that tie those bits together I have to stress to

everyone don't go here for some people go there for the pad let me find

dependence develop your codes first your fundamental list of codes and then make

your connections don't rush through it it happens quickly and it can happen

actually as you're doing first cycle so you just got to be attentive and you got

to be vulnerable to it but don't stay locks you know don't get locked in it

don't say this pattern is happening and then try to force things into that

pattern stay open stay loose it's very important this is where theoretical

constructs will come in and the relationships to the codes themselves

some quick notes in terms of understand the process of coding there's more than

one way to code my students always want to know you know and people I work with

what's the one right way there's really not

you saw all the different types of first cycle coding and there's number of

different ways to go about doing that whether you read them first read them at

all when you're working with colleagues there's a number of what

to do it but you have to start somewhere always memo and jot pre-code activities

do you read them before you start coding to get familiar with them

what could should be coded that really depends on your guiding evaluation

questions in your evaluation plan the garbage in garbage out just like if

you're working out if you don't do a great work out if you don't put forth

some effort you're not going to get a great outcome it's the same thing with

data analysis year if you don't put forth good methods and rigorous methods

and try to get that data and get a good sample you're gonna get junk d

contextualizing and recontextualizing remember you are a you are a filter you

are interpreting constantly and this is something I like to call the Goldilocks

dilemma this is where your codes might be too general or they might be too

specific right both of those are problematic so always be open to

refining and letting decaying codes just die out like don't force him I did say I

would provide some examples from my own work in terms of data analysis I'm not

going to run through this it again a lot of words but what I've done in these

next two slides is provide kind of a blueprint an outline if you will some

key points stuff that I just took from our and now our methods and analysis

section from those paper so one of the things to look at is the things I bolted

the multi-step inductive and deductive coding things I talked about identifying

patterns how we did that we utilize inductive codes making comparisons right

and then one of the things I do want to reference here is that we actually what

we ended up doing was once I developed the codes and went through first and

second cycle a ton I threw those away after I had my codebook came back to a

clean set of transcripts and actually went ahead and used my codes my patterns

as codes and recoated all of those transcripts again so again did it in

another cycle of getting more in-depth so you can feel free to use these

resources and again use me as a resource as well but again I'm near his for the

the mat program we did open coding utilize those factor factors as codes as

well we did a frequency analysis to identify how many times factors were

actually raised and then we looked at the degree of specific especially excuse

me to those categories add to the

intervention so how close were they to intervention and how close were they to

the out sending context of the institution or those within it right we

also practice in decoder reliability which is very important when you have

others coding you want to make sure you have some similarities in terms of how

you're coding as well now real quick is I am running at a time

and people are letting me know so what I want to go right here is I'm going to go

real quick through grounded theory just some key fundamental points and then

open it up to questions so the take-home message here and I provided a list of

citations here for you so feel free to utilize these as resources and

understanding grant theory not everything is a grounded theory or a

grounded Theory approach or a constructivist grounded Theory approach

if people have told me that they feel like they need to utilize that in their

papers because it adds sophistication because qualitative methods has a

negative stigma so they feel like they say oh I did grounded theory that

they're adding some sophistication that's not the case right one of the key

things remember and I've taken this direct quote from one of the resources

there the final product of a grounded Theory study or even a grounded

evaluation or assessment protocol or ground 3 nestled with an assessment

evaluation or assessment is an integrated and comprehensive grounded

theory that explains a process or scheme associated with a phenomena you have

when you're saying you're utilizing grounded theory you have to generate

theory it can be an add-on to a fairly popular theory within the literature as

it is that's fine but you have to generate some kind of theoretical

concept process or construct right that is the key and a lot of times I'd say

you know I don't haven't done a frequency analysis I'd say it's probably

close to 85% of the papers that I review that say they're doing grounded theory

are not doing grounded theory especially an evaluation and assessment and in the

interprofessional realm particularly so in terms of these coding processes for

grounded theory I said I'm going to move a little bit quickly

there's initial coding and then there's focus coding just like that first cycle

and second cycle and again you'll have these slides so you'll be able to use

these as a resource as well but I do want to show you some

key factors open coating is utilized frequently within grounded theory actual

coding categories are more refined just like in the general second cycle and

then selective coating where you have a core category where you're starting to

identify those Q via reticle constructs and you're piecing the theory together

into a story and relating it to other categories granda Theory coding

generates the bones of your analysis theoretical integration will assemble

these bones into a working skeleton oftentimes when people are doing ground

in theory they just leave the bones there they forget to bring it all

together with axial coding and then theoretical coding in discussion in

terms of the more classic folks in Grenaa theory like Strauss and Corbin

and Glasser this axial coding and theoretical coding are the key elements

this is where Sharma's might start to kind of differentiate a little bit Shana

is a perspective on grounded theory and there are differing perspectives on

grounded theory and all have their own merits of course she breaks away a

little bit in terms of axial and theoretical coding all right and so I

mean I'm not trying to put words in her mouth but that's where it kind of gets a

little bit more for the people and a little less more theoretically rounded

right so it's very important to understand the key elements with

grounded theory and I think all of them have the merits and they have their

similarities but there's also a number of differences as well and again I can

go more into Decimus later one of the last things I want to leave you about is

is the questions about - in vivo or not - in vivo right this is not an

endorsement by any means but here's a list of a qualitative software so to

analyze qualitative data I use in vivo or match QD a I have a colleague right

across the hall who utilizes at least Ti and hyper research different people

utilize different things the one thing I will stress it helps to break rocks I

will give it that but it does kind of eliminate that intimacy with your data

when you're not doing it by hand but these are very useful when you're

utilizing a large amount of data so some takeaway points as I wrap up qualitative

methods are useful and valuable in various evaluation assessment designs

right the how why what and when you're going to pick the right methods to the

job and you need to utilize your guiding evaluations questions

for that know before you dig understand what you're getting yourself into

utilize that evaluation plan analysis manners engage in detail not everything

is grounded theory and of course use your resources use your colleague use

your resources use the settings you have so my advertisements for the

end-of-course Doug Archibald coming up on may 22nd with utilizing quantitative

methods to collect and analyze your data make sure you register for that and of

course save the date for the next summit I'll be there as well the whole team

will be there actually if I remember correctly and that's from July 29 to

August 1st but we'll have a short course for the evaluation for program

evaluation and guide number five in which we are actually Doug and I are

given a little bit more space to talk more in depth about methods but we'll

also go much more in depth about the program number five as well so it's a

great supplement to these webinars and with that I know I went fast and I

apologize towards you but I did want to leave some time for questions so do

anybody have any questions

thanks so much Barrett and yes we've been monitoring a couple of the

questions coming in the first one we got asks you to talk a little bit more about

how to collect qualitative data online and what some challenges are advice you

might give especially during the IRB part which I am assuming is the

recruitment yeah so ISO IRB in terms of designing the actual protocol for your

whole research design and human research assuming subjects research yet so online

it really depends on what you're trying to do if you're going to do online in

terms of sending out emails to solicit responses and it still is that your

sample that's and that's that's you can do that IRB allows that you just have to

send in your new your solicitation email to with your protocol to say what it's

asking them to do I often include a consent form in there as well so the

students know what they're getting themselves into or the participants know

what they're getting themselves into and if you're looking at

there's an online program that you want to evaluate that's an interesting ball

of wax but you can utilize that in the same way that you would utilize an

in-person program or intervention that you wanted to evaluate but in terms of

using IRB and if you're trying to get online recruitment that's really

utilizing a strong solicitation email and I have examples of that I'm more

than willing to share and also providing ajust enough information for people to

understand what you're doing and they know what they're signing up for if I

didn't answer that question I apologize but let me know any experience a second

question asks in a focus group type of qualitative study in multiple

institutions do you usually have the same person read the groups in all

institutions or if you have a different person in each institution as long as

that leader has experience oh it's a good question so so we qualitative

method it's hard to control for a lot of things one of the things if it's

possible if it's possible setting up the design to where the person leading the

focus group is the same person for each of the groups regardless of the location

that would be wonderful but again feasibility is what's going to

steer that ship if that's not feasible then you have to have an agreement

between the people leading the focus groups understanding what's going on

maybe even doing a practice focus group beforehand to make sure both people

understand how their the other is going to go about leading the group so you're

not taking the group's in different directions or even meandering in one way

that you wouldn't do for another so you know best-case scenario have one person

lead it and then worst case scenario just makes sure they're both on the same

page in terms of moving forward or the all three of them are because if you're

working with the de team and you have three or four it may just be easier to

have each of them do their own just make sure everyone's on the same page

great thanks Brett I've got one question and then maybe we can wrap up after that

I thought it was great how you mentioned using the literature as you identified

the need for qualitative Memphis for your two examples and then even how you

focus your methods I'm just wondering if there are seminal

review articles in the IPE CP literature that you might recommend people read in

order to understand what have we learned from qualitative research in the IPE CP

field to date you left you leave me with a stumper alone you close down I was

doing so well and then you just draw this this one that I thought was going

to be a slow pitch but ends up being a fast ball yeah right right down the

middle and you can email people later but if you guess I'm going to take that

route there are there are a number of I put it this way so I review a ton of

articles that are evaluation and assessment with qualitative methods and

I just from that alone as well as my own research in citing certain people there

are a ton of excellent approaches and some very complicated and sophisticated

qualitative methods that I would love to compile if I if I have the time and I

definitely will before the short course that's really what we what we've learned

the results are you know effect like a meta-analysis of qualitative studies I

will get if any of the audience members has one in mind that'd be great at the

time nothing's coming to mind but it doesn't mean it doesn't exist so I will

dig in the trenches and see if I can come up with one or two but there are

just extremely great examples that you can utilize as frameworks for your own

work I think that's one of the best ways to do that good good no you hit the ball

out of the park okay all right well and also I do want to add one more thing cuz

you thought about literature and when I was talking about Grenaa theory I move

kind of quickly and I do want to add that constant comparison is also a

technique utilized in grounded theory in which you're comparing not only data to

data but also data to literature consistently from the start of your data

gathering and also those are methods you know the open coding actual coding

theoretical coding constant comparison those types of things that are specific

to grounded theory but they're not just for grounded theory you can utilize

those on your own in terms of any kind of inductive or deductive approach

they're not just for grounded theory so don't be afraid to utilize them in your

own opportunities as well thank you so much ferret one thing

before we log off here as I am going to put an evaluation link in the chat box

if you all could click on that link and take a couple minutes to fill out that

evaluation we would really appreciate it and that concludes our session today

thanks so much for joining us and we look forward to meeting you and hearing

from some of you in the future

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THE BEST FACEBOOK AD... EVER?! - Duration: 7:33.

What's up you guys Jason Wardrop here and I think I stumbled across

The best Facebook ad I have ever run or I've ever seen

Okay, I'm gonna show you guys the stats here in just a second

But the interesting thing to take note of is if I were to run this same exact ad

Even six months ago over a year ago and not understanding this one key concept that I'm gonna share with you all today

I probably would have just shut the ad off and I would have been missing out on a ton of

money and a ton of sales

Now guys really quick this Facebook ad is not to any warm audience or hot audience or anything like that

This is actually too cold traffic and I spent

$2,200 a little over $2,200

I'll show you guys the actual stats here in just a second a little over $2,200

Just this past month and made thirty five thousand dollars back out

Okay

Now I don't even know how to do the math to go calculate the ROI on that

But it's pretty insane right now

Once again guys, I just have to stress that this was too cold traffic que

$2,200 in

$35,000 back out and a lot of you guys are posting. Well, yeah, of course

I was just like - warmth we're warm audience or people you already know is a new offer or something like that

which yes

I have a lot of ads just like that because if people know you

Like you trust you and you've got a new offer they'd get excited about the very first month

Then you're able to make a ton of sales, but the crazy thing about this is this is the cold traffic

It is a look-alike audience. So 1% look-alike audience - the lifetime value of my customers

so what I did was I created a custom audience and

it show basically all the customers that we have and how much money they had paid to our

Company over the lifetime of them connecting with us as a company

And so, you know, there are some people that maybe had only spent $50 or somebody spent like, you know

5,000 or 10,000 dollars over the course of last couple of years and then Facebook's able to take that and

Create a look-alike audience based off that data

So it's really cool because if somebody has spent ten thousand dollars with our company

they're gonna wait that person that profile a lot higher than someone who's only spent maybe

$50 or $100 or something like that and then Facebook creates a one

Look like audience off of that custom audience

And this is the audience that absolutely crushed it with this ad

So yes, it's called traffic

But these are people that are very similar to the people that are already buying things from me now

there is a lot to be said still about the

Actual ad that was placed and all that stuff to copy because I'm running actually several ads to this exact audience and they're performing well

But none of the ads are performing as well as this ad, so let's jump onto my computer

I'm going to show you guys how we've spent like a little over twenty two hundred dollars and made thirty five thousand dollars back

Just this past month. Alright guys. So here we are inside my Facebook Ads manager

I'm going to show you guys the stats here and why a year ago. I might have actually shut this ad off

But you can see this is all last month

So January 1st, 2019 to January 31st, 2019, and we've got the ad over here

Which I'm actually gonna keep hidden from you guys because you got to be creative with the different ads that you're going through and creating

once again guys

this is to a 1% look like audience of the lifetime value and

If we take a look at this guy's so I've got a 75 dollar daily budget in the past month. We spent 23 ok

I said 20 200. I thought it was 22

I guess these numbers I got mixed up right here

But 23 28 24 and so we got 35 purchases which each one of these purchases are valued at $1000. So

$35,000 and the cost per purchase was

$66 and 52 cents

That's crazy, right?

so guys the reason why I probably would have actually just

Cancelled this ad back in the day and not really known is because back in the day

I was only tracking how much it cost to generate a lead now with my webinars

I typically like to shoot for $8 with my lead costs

And if you look at this, it was costing me $13 and 54 cents

Every single time a lead was generated. Okay. So with that, let's see how many leads were actually generating

172 leads were generated

Okay, but I wasn't tracking sales back in the day

Okay, which I know is a super amateur mistake

But you need to make sure your tracking leads as well as sales and knowing how much

To generate a lead and how much it actually cost to generate a sale from those leads

So you look at this thirteen dollars and fifty four cents

Which is actually five dollars five dollars and fifty cents higher than I typically like to shoot for

But it generated thirty five sales with sixty six dollars and 52 cents cost per sale

Which normally this is around the 400 to 500 dollar per sale on a cold audience just like this

So if you look at this the crazy thing about this

High lead cost but we have thirty five purchases of a total of a hundred and seventy two leaves

which normally this is a hundred percent accurate you got to actually go into your

CRM and see how many leads are actually generated which this is probably gonna be closer to like 150 160

But that's just kind of like what Facebook's giving you as data

So you got to make sure your tracking is nailed down on that

But if you look at that thirty-five sales in a hundred and seventy two leads

Generated that's like a sale for every four to five leads. That is generated. Okay, that is absolutely insane

So anyway guys the whole point of this video is one to go through and show you guys that this is actually pretty cool

I was actually when I was going through and reviewing my ads for the month of January

I was actually kind of blown away by this

I thought there was like something wrong and I went checked it and I was like no

This is actually right and then I was like looking at the lead cost versus you know

the cost per sale and all that stuff, so

one obviously

It was kind of fun kind of cool to share with you guys

And then too

If you're kind of like getting into Facebook ads make sure that you're not only tracking at the cost per lead

But how much it costs you to generate a sale?

Okay, and you can do that with custom audiences custom conversions all that stuff

Which I've got tons of videos on the channel showing you guys exactly how to do all this stuff

And also if you guys want my facebook ads mini course, there's probably gonna be a link or opt-in right down below this video

So you guys can just opt-in get that it's 100% free

They've got like I mean over four hours of just free content for you guys

If you want to dive deeper into things you'll be able to snag my facebook ads master class. It's like 47 bucks

So really not that much, so I wanted to quickly share this with all of you guys because I thought it was cool

Hopefully you guys found it valuable

To see and knowing to track leads and say because I remember the first time I heard about that

I was like man, that's genius

And once again, I would have shut this ad off a year or two ago because I would just see like oh man

I'd like its cost a lot to generate lead

So I'm not gonna go through and keep that running but this is pumping out more sales than like any ad that I've ever run

To a cold audience now. These are pretty typical numbers when you're looking at warm audience

So people have is your website, maybe Watson videos of yours or like they know like and trust you

Okay, or maybe they're a past client or something like that

These are pretty typical and I've got other videos showing you guys how to do all the retargeting stuff but with a cold audience

It's absolutely insane. So anyway guys, hopefully you enjoyed this video

If you did go ahead give it a thumbs up also drop a comment down below

I'd love to hear about

Your business how I can help you any other videos that you'd like me to shoot to go through and help you with scaling growing

Your business and taking things to the next level. So with that said guys

Thanks so much for watching and I will talk to you all later

For more infomation >> THE BEST FACEBOOK AD... EVER?! - Duration: 7:33.

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Killer Mike - Duration: 8:33.

(upbeat bright music)

Please welcome Michael Render, aka Killa Mike.

(audience cheering and clapping)

I'm glad you came.

(audience cheering and clapping)

Now, brother right here is real with it.

Thank you all.

One of the hottest rappers in the game.

Coming out of Atlanta.

(audience cheering and clapping)

But we gotta break it down a little bit,

cause you gonna scare some of the folk with it.

I say, "Killer Mike",

they stutter, "What's that, Killer Mike?"

Tell them the real, cause they be more like friendly Mike?

Yeah, my name is Michael Render.

That's what my mother named me.

I'm named for my dad and

I have a daughter named from me.

I actually won a grammy a lot of years ago.

But we-- (crowd cheers)

Salute. We lost last year though.

I'm one half of a group called Run The Jewels

which is, on the other half is a guy from Brooklyn

named El-P, and a beautiful woman named Shana's husband.

Thank you guys for having me.

Yeah, that's a beautiful thing.

So, the Killer came from killing them in battle, right?

Yeah, the killer.

I was 15 years old.

I was battling five, six, seven, eight guys.

I was killing them, my nickname was Skunk.

And a guy stood up and said, "Yo, that kid's a killer.

"He's killing y'all."

And no one ever called me Mike after that.

There it is, Killer Mike.

(audience cheering and clapping)

Keep killing it, man.

You're killing it out there right now.

I appreciate you, man. Oh, man

I've been a fan.

You're a brother.

Just in terms of being outspoken, and I--

That's love. I just appreciate you.

Gotta get you on the podcast, so we can go real deep.

We gotta do that, we gotta do that.

One thing I always admire and respect about you

every time we get together is, man,

you a family-oriented man. Yeah.

You love your community.

You've been married to your wife for 13 years.

About 13 years. That's success right there.

You've got your queen with you.

Yeah, that's her.

She hates that picture, I think she looks hot.

Yeah, she does. Like smoking.

She's gonna probably hit me later for that photo being used,

but I told her she's Baywatch beautiful.

There it is, there it is.

And she's also extremely powerful, extremely intelligent.

You actually wanted to make a purchase, a car purchase.

The Dodge Demon which was a lot of money.

And she shut down the purchase and told you

you should invest or you tell me the story.

Well, it was two things.

I wanted a Dodge Demon, I saved up for a year.

I was gonna get a Dodge Demon.

And then my good friend, TI, calls me and says,

"Hey, there's this 50 year old restaurant for sale

"that's in our neighborhood called Bankhead Seafood."

And I was like, "Oh, well.

"I guess I won't be getting that Demon."

I thought later, "Man, I got a quarter million dollars.

"All my friends are goin' out, buying Rolls Royce trucks,

"maybe I should too."

And she was like, "No, dummy.

"We're gonna buy an apartment building.

"And we're gonna use this as a long-term investment."

Wise woman.

The building we bought is worth triple

what it was worth when we bought it.

With a quarter million dollar investment,

she made me about $500,000 extra.

Wow, that's a queen right there.

Yeah, absolutely.

That's being equally yolked.

And if y'all wanna follow her, she's just shaybig on IG.

There it is. Just regular shaybig.

Follow the queen. And one thing, man.

Not only do you have the apartment buildings,

restaurants, barbershops, you got a lot of property

and businesses in your community in Georgia.

And the Super Bowl this past weekend was there.

You know, everybody knows I took the stance.

Me and Cap, I was with Cap for real,

we was having Chinese vegan food,

and I chose to stay here.

I actually was in Atlanta, I specifically

came back to get ready for the show.

Oh, all the dancers say they missed you.

Oh, I know.

I was like, "Sorry, girls, we're protesting."

Very funny, but we don't share

the exact same opinions. No.

But we want the same outcome.

Yeah.

I wanna know how you feel about

the Super Bowl coming to your city and

all of the things that were goin' on there for you.

First of all, there are many wells to freedom,

and we all can meet each other there.

During the Civil Rights campaign,

Martin King was looked as someone who is very civil

and very susceptible to the white structure here.

If you look at Stokely Carmichael, Kwame Ture,

if you look at those brothers' of Malcolm,

they're looked at as more radical,

but they all wanted the same thing,

basic human rights for us.

So for me, in matters of black people

choosing to work on the Super Bowl, I didn't have any

critique or criticism because I live in Atlanta.

I saw what, economically, it did for us.

Because there's a high amount of

African-American business ownership,

in particular black women, I saw restaurants thrive.

Even out to the strip club I went to was black all.

Except for the one Asian stripper in the show.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I showed her love later.

But for me, you can't have a Super Bowl in Atlanta

and not have Outkast present, so big boy was appropriate.

To me, you can't have a Super Bowl in Atlanta

and not have Gladys Knight sing, she was present.

Even out to the coin toss and being John Lewis.

I don't want our civil rights, people who forged these

basically, for us to be there, I don't want them wiped away.

So, I was proud of Atlanta because we managed to disagree

and still bring income into that.

Working class people walked away with more money.

You know, small businesses walked away.

I gotta salute it. And we got to jam.

I think Maroon 5 deserves a salute for what they did.

We opened for the Foo Fighters, my group,

Run The Jewels, the day before.

Tom Morello from Rage Against The Machine came out to play.

So, people protested. There was

a mural of Colin Kaepernick that got torn down.

They tore down one.

Artists came together the night before

and did a seven in the splash, so I wanna implore them.

All over the city of Atlanta.

Absolutely.

And Colin loved it, he reposted all of them.

I felt like the NFL heard our voices loud and clear.

Cause the ratings-- And the ratings,

it was the lowest in 10 years. Down.

So, I think we both got what

we wanted out of this whole thing.

It's a beautiful day.

And these are the types of topics that you discuss

and deal with on your new Netflix show, Trigger Warning.

All the way down to the strip club.

I love all the episodes I've seen thus far,

but the one that you wanted to only spend

your money in the black community.

It was so difficult for you that you had to sleep

on a bus bench-- On a park bench in Atkins.

You couldn't eat, you couldn't get none of that

(Nick coughing)

It was just so difficult because

there aren't enough black-owned businesses.

Tell me a little bit about that.

Who would have thought white people would

take marijuana from Mexico's blacks.

Man, I couldn't even smoke because marijuana is grown,

but after that, I found a lot--

You ain't find no Jamaicans?

Man, I couldn't find one Jamaican.

I shouldn't have been at store mouth.

But this is the thing.

Individually as African-Americans,

seven years to ten years after slavery,

we had already amounts land and wealth,

and done better for ourselves.

By the time 1907 came around, Tuskegee University

was graduating more black millionaires than Harvard,

or millions period than Harvard or Yale

based on them being able to take trades and study.

So for me, it's about individually

being economically responsible.

Then as a community, doing that and

that helps a large community.

If the black community in America

is strong financially and economically,

the greater community becomes stronger.

How does that work, Mike?

Well, if you're community is charging $2.50

or $3.50 for gas, and that's a corporate, large gas station.

And you have a smaller gas station that's able

to give you better pricing that's owned locally,

regionally, or as well say black because I live

near other black people, then that means

you can come in from outside my community

to take advantage of those resources, as well.

You can join in.

Our community is stronger,

the greater community is stronger.

I'm never excluding people when

I say bait-black or bi-black, I wanna include you.

I want vanilla, chocolate, strawberry.

All the greens. Exactly.

Now, when you runnin' for president, man?

Killer Mike, 2020.

This man is a true scholar, a true leader.

Thank you for being here, brother.

Thank you. We gonna continue this.

Trigger Warning. See it.

It's an amazing show streaming on Netflix now.

(upbeat bright music)

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