Do you know what empathy is and do you know how to show empathy?
Hi, this is Naomi with the Top Shelf VA channel, your place for creativity and inspiration
for business and life.
Tonight, we are going to do something a little bit different.
I have my good friend and colleague, Gordon Isman, here to help us discuss and talk about
empathy, why it's important of business, for life,
and especially in social media.
So, before we go on any further, hi Gord.
Thank you for being with me tonight.
So, welcome.
Why don't you tell people a little bit about you and what you do?
Okay, well thank you very much for having me.
What I really do is I have a channel where I educate people in video editing, video creating,
and about marketing, and how to succeed with YouTube.
And, from a technical standpoint, I love to do a lot of Camtasia tutorials.
As you know, and that's where, you know, we met in our love of Camtasia.
So, yeah, and my mission is to help people to, what I say, learn, apply, and transform
what they learn especially through using video to help grow.
So, let's just go ahead and do the dictionary definition of what empathy is.
And, the dictionary definition is that empathy is the ability to understand and share the
feelings of others.
Now, do you agree with that or would you add anything to that?
Well, I agree with in terms of adding, and I think it's more because of the experience
I've had.
I mean, I was in the IT tech career, but my jobs were, you know in consulting, and I'm
always working with clients.
I'm always managing teamwork.
I'm a project management professional and I've consulted at the highest levels in
large corporations and worked for companies like
Oracle and Price Waterhouse.
And, having to be in the leadership and responsible position, we deal with people that come
from all kinds of backgrounds.
And, you know, problems and issues arise, and if you can't show that you can be, you
know, understanding and appreciative of whatever
things people are dealing with in their state of
life and being at work, where you are, then, then we just become robots doing our work.
And, you know, we're actually there for connection.
If you have no joy in your work, I'm not saying, we're there to chat it up all the
time, or anything like that, but you want to feel that you're
appreciated, and that people respect you.
And, so that's always been something very important in my leadership experience, so
I that I connect better with people.
And, also when they resonate with on a, on a deeper level, and they know that you care.
They care more about their job and performing, enjoying it to.
That's a big part.
Enjoying it.
I completely agree with that and I came up with the six levels that I would call it of
having empathy and exactly what you were just saying.
That really is one of the first steps of having empathy, is being able to put aside what your
own viewpoint is.
Because if you come into a discussion immediately and say, with your viewpoint, and your
viewpoint is going to be the only viewpoint, that makes it very difficult to have empathy
for somebody else because you are not listening
to them.
Which is actually the second step, to be able to listen and connect with the other person.
Do you think those first two steps are right?
Yeah, I think they're very important and you know, it can also gets to be a double-edged
sword.
Because when you're managing other people, you also need to get performance done and
some people are prone to be, you know, living as excuse makers, and live on the side of
being, you know, whiners to an extent of being unreasonable.
Then, you have, you know, the dynamics get even worse to try and manage.
Right?
Right?
Yeah, but it's very important to be able to have an understanding and appreciate every
person for whatever their uniqueness is and what their challenges are, and how they function.
I am the, currently, I am the President of our HOA.
So, I'm in leadership and if you've ever, well I know you have.
If you've ever managed an HOA, you have a lot of homeowners who have a lot of varying
viewpoints.
So, if you are not able to stand back and listen, and try to put your viewpoint aside,
the it can become very difficult in managing the HOA.
And, you end up having a lot homeowners that are angry.
Yeah, I think your HOA is the same thing as our, our Board of Directors and what is called
our Condo Corporation or Townhouse Corporation.
And I've served on the Board in one of those for five years in the complex where I live,
and boy, I mean it can pretty ugly.
Especially, in that general meetings and people have expectations of things should have been
done, or whatever, and you can be dished a lot of
tough attitude.
And, to remain objective and, even if they're being a little unreasonable.
The third step of having empathy is not being quick to judge or critique, or not, I shouldn't
even say not being quick to.
Not judging or critiquing.
Because the minute that you start judging or critiquing somebody else, especially if
they didn't ask for a judgement or critique, and they're
coming to you with a complaint or upset about something
and you immediately come out with a judgement.
That can cause them to shut down immediately or get more angry.
Try to be less critical and judgmental, and not take things personally.
Because it's very easy when people are, you know, angry or upset, or frustrated at
whatever the message is.
You know it's not necessarily at you.
Especially when you're serving in a role like you described that we both experienced.
It's tough to take a breath, be objective, and know that you're also there to serve
them.
And, you know, sometimes you don't get the reciprocal treatment back, and being able
to rise above that and still achieve what you're all there
for, you know.
It takes experience and skill.
Right, so that was the third step of not judging or critiquing, and the forth step is validating
or recognizing the other person's perspective.
So, you have to verbally be able to say to the other person, "I understand what you're
saying," or "I can see your perspective," or "I
understand how you feel."
And, not just leaving it there, but, "I understand you feel this way because, this
is happening and this is happening."
Sometimes it's hard to find the right words, so that the other person really feels that
you're, you are really validating.
That you really did hear.
Because that's what they really want to know.
You really heard what I was saying.
Whether you agree with it or not, you at least did hear what I have to say.
Yeah, listening is a very big part of all of this.
And, like you said, by showing some form of verbal acknowledgement, shows that you are tuned
in.
And, like you said, maybe it's just that they needed to express, and I so often what
happens is, people hold things in and they don't express.
So, you don't even know that you can support them because they're not expressing.
And, that's a whole other thing about being able to get people to express when they're
sort of suppressed by nature.
You know what I mean?
So, it all depends on the circumstances and what you're dealing with.
But, yes, I think listening is a great skill and I'll never forget my boss telling me
that, well he used to have a little saying on his whiteboard,
in his office, and it said, "Listen Don't Speak."
Meaning that, he has to listen first before he's going to say anything and it's always
good to let a little time pass before you jump in to give
a response.
Exactly.
It let's, I guess your compassion and empathy mindset, and appreciation for the other come
into play in the equation.
And that can be one of my weaknesses sometimes, is that, I will, somebody after I've validated
or if I'm listening and after I've validated,
and they say something else, I want to jump in with more.
And, I have, I've become pretty good, but still sometimes I will catch myself, that
I am speaking before I've really heard what the other
person has said.
The fifth step for empathy is having the ability to ask the other person who is upset, complaining
about something, sharing feelings…
This is business, or life, or social media, is to be able to say in such a way, "Okay,
what do you want?
What do you want to have happen?
How, how would this be different for you if what you want, what would that look like?
You need to find out what the, if the person is complaining about something, or is upset
about something, in the back of their mind they're
thinking that, "If this was different, or if this was different,
I would feel different."
So, this is part of the aspect of listening, which is, which is, which is key, rather than
dictating whatever the event or situation caused or triggered,
in a rough situation, that by being able to listen and hear
them out and, you know still someone's still responsible for owning the outcome.
So, I always often refer back to a principle I learned in Jack Canfield's training called
E plus R equals O, which means event plus response equals
outcomes.
So, you know, an even that has effect someone and their angered, like there's an event
we're both in the middle of, and how we both collectively
respond can influence that outcome.
And, listening is a big part of making sure both sides get an opportunity to express their
feelings and where they're at, so that, you know regardless
of the outcome, they were, consideration was given,
right?
You know, it makes easier, so that things, you're not leaving any baggage behind, so
to speak.
And, and the baggage can, you don't want to leave any baggage behind because if you're
leaving baggage behind, then that's something that's
just could end up stewing.
You want to make sure that everything is clear, and that both parties are coming to at least
the finish line of an agreement, or feeling better,
or something along the lines.
Without leaving either person in the background saying, "Well I didn't really get that
answer that…
He or she didn't really answer my question."
Or, "He or she really, really didn't listen to what I was saying."
So, you don't want to leave that type of baggage behind.
True but we should also qualify that it's not always the case that even if you've
expressed what you've said, that the outcome is going
to be what you were hoping for too.
Right?
We still have to move on, but you'll feel, you know at ease or respected because you
did get a chance to express and have a dialogue.
One of the ways, and that's the sixth step of having empathy.
If you are the person listening, not judging, asking the person, you know what they would
want to have happen for them to feel better, or
to have things different, then you can ask yourself,
if you're a person with real empathy is to ask yourself, if there is anything that
you can do to help that person.
This isn't saying that, you know, you have to always be a yes person.
This isn't saying that you have to agree completely with the person or that you have
to always do something for the person.
But it is, what you're doing is, well how, what can I do to at least make this person
feel better?
Can I give them examples?
Can I give them references?
Can I give them, like if it's a personal empathy in a relationship, does this person,
all this person need is a hug.
Or, does this person, just need to go to the movies and just have a, you know, a mind numb
A time out.
Yeah, a time out, mind numbing.
What can I do to help this person?
I call it escapism.
Escapism, right, exactly.
But, lots of times we don't realize how much we could help another person by just
giving a word of encouragement and that's all that is
needed from us.
Very true, and what interesting is you'll find some work cultures are I think better
than others with the ability of how that is instilled
in their management and team leadership.
We had the, a major social media blowup, which was with YouTube.
And, any small YouTubers, they will understand what the blowup was about, and I think this
was an excellent example of how two sides, the business side of YouTube didn't have
empathy.
And, then the social media side and some social media side, and small YouTubers didn't have
empathy.
Let me go ahead and share the screen.
I found this article, it's Time Magazine, about "Five Ways to be More Empathetic."
I found this interest where is said, "The US is facing a boom in digital abuse: over
70% of adults have experienced online harassment and trolling.
Studies show a long-term decline in empathy levels
amongst college students of nearly 50% in the past three decades.
Other research reveals that the wealthier you are, the less empathic you are
likely to be—a growing concern as inequality is widening."
I found that very interesting, especially to what you were saying about the various
cultures, Depending where you're at in the culture.
Yeah, I think actually this brings out a lot of what is said there applies to this example
that we're dealing with right now, which happened
in the YouTube community.
Should, should we, can, can we talk…
Yeah, let me go ahead and share that.
So, all these small YouTubers, without any forewarning that YouTube was going to be making
any major changes, all of a sudden received this
e-mail, which says…
Today we are announcing changes to the YouTube Partner Program (YPP).
First of all, small YouTubers are pretty much, a lot of small YouTubers have under a thousand
subscribers, are just starting, and they had certain goal posts that YouTube put up for
us.
Like 10,000 views and you'll be able to get into the YouTube Partnership, and a lot
of people Were working towards that goal.
And, now it says that under the YouTube Partner Program.
Under the new eligibility requirements announced today, your YouTube channel,
which is mine Top Shelf VA, is no longer eligible for monetization
because it doesn't meet the new threshold of 4,000 hours of watch time within the past
12 months and 1,000 subscribers.
As a result, your channel will lose access to all monetization
tools and features associated with the YouTube Partner Program on February 20, 2018
unless you surpass this threshold in the next 30 days.
That was a gut punch because we didn't even know that they were going to be making
any changes.
So, nowhere in this, first of all, nowhere in this e-mail is there any sign of empathy.
Of saying, we know this is going to be a radical change.
We understand this is going to affect you, etc.
And, then when you click on the Learn More, you come to this page of the Creator blog.
And, you actual had a video with Dale Roberts.
This is the part that you did not like, and I just would like you to…
Sure.
Go ahead and talk about this and what you felt from it, and also add to it, why, what
the empathy that is missing from this statement
here.
This is their rationalization.
This is the message, their communication to the small YouTuber.
And they say, "we can prevent bad actors from harming the inspiring and original creators
around the world who make their living on YouTube.
A big part of that effort will be strengthening our requirements for monetization
so spammers, impersonators, and other bad actors can't hurt our ecosystem or take
advantage of you, while continuing to reward those who make our platform great."
I mean, I read that, and I like, fell out of my chair.
What really bothered me is they say, you know, they're strengthening their requirements
for monetization, so their original rationalization
of doing this was, that you know.
We have to respect our advertisers because they need to be able to have their ads shown
in a community of content that's respectful,
safe, etc.
And, I get that.
Totally support that.
That's all cool and good.
But, they say, so they're protecting monetization.
So, spammers, impersonators, and other bad actors can't hurt our ecosystem or take
advantage of you.
So, but wait a second, I'm a small YouTuber by these requirements, so they've only listed
spammers, impersonators, and other bad actors, and implying about how they take
advantage of you.
You know, those who make the platform great.
So, what they did by stating that is everyone who falls through, below that threshold of
of 4,000 watch time hours and 1,000 subscribers.
They, we're all couched together in there, and I don't see anything that's empathetic
in that communication, other than to the advertisers.
The business people, where the money comes from.
And, yes, the small YouTuber does make some what's called adsense revenue of that.
But, I felt like so, so hurt, because, I work, you work, many people we know work so hard
to produce consistent, regular content, and produce what we have and deliver.
And many of us, like what you and are doing, our niches are pretty small.
So, because of the test that they created to couch all the people under this nasty
labelling that they applied, was just ridiculous.
So, maybe the test is okay but the didn't quality the application of their meaning to
respect the small guy that's working hard to achieve that.
And, that's where I just felt so wholloped and felt violated.
Then it triggered all kinds of other feelings, which I will go ahead with in a minute but
you want to make a comment about that.
Right, I was just going to say I completely with you.
And, even if they had added one simple sentence or two simple sentences in there to
the affect of, we know this may be very hard on the small YouTubers who have been
playing by the rules.
However, it would be far more difficult for us to weed out, because we tried that in 2017
and it was too difficult.
So right now, we have to do this blanket decision and then we will start looking at individual…
However, they wanted to do it, but at least acknowledging by having some empathy, by
acknowledging, validating, that validating the small YouTubers.
And say, "We validate.
We hear.
We understand, and we know what you want, but we have
To do this right now."
"We will readdress this at a later time."
Right, and they didn't do any of that until, ironically, just today, which is one week
after that announcement.
They were so barraged with feedback and comments, that they came out to make a statement
today, where they actually said some words like…
"We know this is disappointing to creators that are doing the right thing."
"We understand your frustration."
Right?
"Especially those who no longer qualify."
So, they came out today and made that acknowledgement, which was missing before.
Because, I think, you know, they were, you know probably getting deluged by people that
were just livid.
And, as you know, it doesn't take much effort in this world for anybody to go put a reaction
video out on Youtube, and there was a lot of it.
And then it triggered all kinds of other, like you know, I'll call it lame reactions, you know where…
Well, we'll go into that as far as the social media.
This is a good example of why businesses, and if you have a business, if you are a small
business, if you are a solopronuer, why it is so important
that when you are going to make a decision for your business, whether it's justified
or not justified.
If you're going to make a major decision, you have to consider your clients, or customers.
And, put yourself in their shoes.
Have empathy.
Think, don't put your viewpoint on it.
Take your viewpoint aside from it.
Do a beta test or talk to people, really listen to people.
Don't judge, you know the critique or the feedback you get.
They claim, ironically, they do claim that they talked to all kinds of creators like
you that were going to be affected.
Meanwhile, I haven't heard a soul step forward to say that there was an outreach.
Not anywhere.
No one has even said they were approached, from what I've seen.
I have another twist to add when you're finished but go ahead.
Okay, so just to finish up my point is if they had done at least the six steps of what
we discussed as far as empathy, or any business.
If they do the six steps.
At least put themselves in the shoes of their client and their customers.
When they make a major announcement like this, if they put a paragraph or something in the
announcement that shows empathy, doesn't mean that all the customers and clients are
going to be, "Oh, okay.
I totally understand.
No problem."
But, there's going to be less anger, or less people being upset.
Your clients are not going to be upset because at least you're acknowledging from the git-go
that we know this is going to be a hardship.
What was your point?
So, my point is.
I learned lessons about this a long time ago in serving clients.
And, I say these opportunities are where you get an opportunity to make, I call it customer
lifetime value situation.
So, you deal with a crappy situation that you know has a really hard impact on your
people and you handle that in an exceptional way,
you just like, launch your trust factor way up.
Right, exactly.
Now, so, what we've is done is we've shown how businesses, such as Youtube, should have empathy, and
what they need to do.
Now, let's talk about social media.
It was amazing to me and it was actually where you were feeling gut punched and what you
said about paragraph about spammers, hackers, etc.
I was feeling, aside from oh my gosh, what have they done?
They are going to be affecting small YouTubers.
When I went to social media, I was feeling exactly the same way you were feeling by the responses
from some of the individuals on various platforms, like Facebook, Twitter, Instagram.
Not, so much Instagram, but mainly Twitter and Facebook.
Let me read you just one example and this is just one example of hundreds.
And, this how the post started out or a lot of these posts started out.
"I honestly feel no sympathy if you're heart broken or want to quit because of monetization
of the monetization policy update."
There were so many posts of, you need to stop crying, you need to get over it, you need
to, I, I have no sympathy for you.
And I kept saying where is the empathy for individuals towards other individuals?
And, I gave an analogy on one of my posts.
You know where I was saying, "Hey people, we need to have some empathy here."
And I said, if a person is walking down the street.
And you see, a person walking down the street.
And, you see another person just all of sudden sucker punch that person.
Knock that person out onto the ground, with no warning.
Just sucker punch them.
They're on the ground.
They're bleeding.
What is your first instinct?
Your first instinct is not to go up to the person, or hopefully not to go up to the person
and say, "Well, too bad.
Get up and keep moving."
You're first instinct, if you're a person that has empathy is to come up and go, "Oh
my gosh!
What happened to you.
I'm so sorry.
How can I help you?"
You have empathy.
You try and help the person help.
Once you've tried and helped the person up, and make sure that they're okay, and
then you give them suggestions of, "Do you want me
to help you go, you know, to the police?"
"Do you want me to, you know, to help you get, is your car parked here?"
"Do you need, you know, to go to the hospital?"
You ask them how you can help them.
Yeah, so you know what's interesting about this, is that I call it the situation for that
kind of comment that you read shows me that this kind of person
has attitude.
Maybe they're a big YouTuber that doesn't give a hoot about the small guy or maybe they
work hard and they think there's a massive amount
of small guys out there, that are legit, that still haven't
got their game together.
But it just showed like, you know, no empathy.
But it was attitude to the extreme and disrespectful, and I'm not saying that underlying that,
there wasn't a good message.
To say, hey, and this is where I've started to look at this.
After a couple of days of the sucker punch wearing out.
Right, let me interrupt you just one second, if I may.
That's it exactly.
You need to give the person the moment, the chance.
You need to have the empathy at the beginning.
Then after a couple days, give them, or even if it's not a couple days.
Give them a day, give them 24 hours to process.
Then, come in with exactly what you were about to say.
Okay, so, then I thought well, you know, it could have been handled.
No, a lot of people could of reacted in a way that I did, and I'm using myself as
an example because I said, "Oh my God, I feel awful."
Because I go, I don't feel this pain and discomfort just for me.
I go, there's an ocean full of small YouTubers that it's not about the money that they're
claiming the policy was money.
It was really about cleaning out a lot of the filth in YouTube as well.
Let's be honest.
And, unfortunately, we got broadstroked, broadbrushed, into the same category.
But, I looked at it and I said, "Well, how can I help other people?"
Because not everyone may see it the way I do after some analysis and taking a few deep
breathes, and realize I want to take this, like they
say, "Take lemons and make lemonade when you're handed the
lemons."
I actually can make this happen or at least give a really good fight for it, and I'm
going to lift a lot of boats around me.
Because I want to inspire other people to not let situations like this, where, you know,
in our own perception, and in the objective eyes
of many, let something like that beat me down.
I think there's a bigger impact on people to like not give up, and go for their dream.
Because for many, the YouTube thing is like a dream.
A fulfillment.
A special kind of way of life and then to hopefully monetize as well.
So, let's just go ahead and wrap this up.
This has been a great conversation.
For my viewers, I will go ahead and put Gord's links down in the description.
If you have experienced the lack of empathy or you have shown empath to someone, we'd
love to see the comments.
Leave a comment and let us know what you have experienced as far as empathy and what you
experience as far as showing empathy.
And, until we meet again, have a wonderful day!
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