that's why I really thought to like how can I provide advice that would be most
helpful and I'm not sure I've given enough thought to to that to give you
the best possible answer but I think I think certainly being focused on
something that you're confident will have high value to someone else and just
being really rigorous in making that assessment because people are attend
tend to natural human tendency is wishful thinking so a challenge for
entrepreneurs is to say well what's the difference between really believing in
your ideals and sticking sticking to them versus pursuing some unrealistic
dream that doesn't actually have merit and it's it's that is a that is a really
difficult thing to to tell you can you tell the difference between those two
things yeah so you need to be sort of very
rigorous in your self self analysis I think certainly extremely tenacious and
and then just work like hell I mean you just have to put in you know 80 hour 80
100 hour weeks every week and then matter like that all those things
improve the odds of success okay I mean if other people are putting in 40 hour
work weeks and you're putting in 100 hour work weeks then even if you're
doing the same thing you know that in in one year you will achieve what they
achieve you will achieve in four months what it takes them a year to achieve how
do you think about making a decision when everyone tells you this is a crazy
idea where do you get the internal strength to do that I'm office well I'd
say I actually think I feel feel fear quite strongly so it's not as though I
just have the absence of fear I've I feel it quite strongly but yeah there
were times when if something is important enough you believe in it
enough that you do you do it in spite of the fear so speaking of important things
like people shouldn't think I I I should if you should think well I feel fear
about this and therefore I shouldn't do it it's normal to be
feel fair like you'd have to definitely something mentally wrong you shouldn't
feel fair so you just feel it and let the importance of it anyway yeah you
know actually we're something that can be helpful as fatalism some degree you
could just think it's just accept the probabilities then that diminishes fear
so my starting SpaceX I thought the odds of success were less than 10% and I just
accepted that actually probably I would just lose lose everything but that maybe
would make some progress if we could just move the ball forward even if we
died maybe some other company could pick up the baton and move and keep moving
forward so that were slowly some good yeah same with Tesla I thought the odds
of a car company succeeding were extremely low when does happy focused on
which walks in and money coming in when creating companies because otherwise the
company will die so that I think that a lot of times people think like creating
company is gonna be fun I would say it's not it's really not that fun I mean
there are periods of fun and there are periods of where to where she's awful
and particularly if you a CEO of the company you actually have a distillation
of all the worst problems in the company there's no point in spending your time
on things that are going right so you only spend on things on your time on
things that are going wrong and and there are things that are going wrong
that other people can't can't take care of so you're like the worst you have a
filter for the crappers problems in the company the most pernicious and painful
problem so I wouldn't say it's it's I think you have to feel quite compelled
to do it and have a fairly high pain threshold and there's a friend of mine
who says like starting companies like staring at the abyss and eating glass
and there's some truth to that
we're staring it's the best part is that you're going to be constantly facing the
extermination of the company because most startups fail like 90% ugly 99% of
starts fail so I so you that that's the staring into the abyss part you can't
stir constantly saying okay this if I don't get this right the company will
die it should be quite right for quite stressful and and then the eating glass
part is you've got you've got to do you've got to be the pawns you gonna
sell you're gonna work on the problems that the company needs you to work on
not the problems you want to work on and so that the that's you and I've working
on problems that that you'd really wish you weren't working on so that's the
eating class part then that goes on for a long time so how do you keep your
focus on the big picture when you're constantly faced with we could be out of
business in a month well it's just a very small percentage of mental energies
on the on the big picture like you know you know you know where you generally
headed heading for and and the fascial path is gonna be some sort of zigzagging
thing in that direction you try not to deviate too far from the path that that
you want to be on but you're gonna have to do that some degree
but I don't want to I don't want to diminish the I mean I think the product
the profit motive is it is a is a good one if the rules of an industry are
properly set up there's something fundamentally wrong with puppet in fact
profit just means that people are paying you more for whatever you're doing then
you're spending to create it that's a good thing and if you're not if that's
not the case then you'll be out of business and rightfully so you're not
adding enough value it would definitely advise people there's not any company to
expect a long period of quite high difficulty yeah but it means long as
people stay super focused on creating absolute best product or service that
really delights their end customer like if they stay focused on that then it
should basically if you get a search that your customers want you to succeed
then then you probably will all right you have to focus on the customer
delivering for them yeah make sure if your customers W you will
your odds of success are dramatically higher when you're building something
new there's going to be mistakes and it's important to to recognize those
mistakes acknowledge them and take corrective action yeah and a successful
company is very much more about how quick are you to fix the mistakes not
will you make mistakes or admit mistakes absolutely yeah and if you see the
difference between a startup that is successful and one that is not it's
because the successful one they're both made mistakes but the successful one
recognize the mistakes fix them very quickly and the unsuccessful one tries
to deny that the mistakes exist you know extremely smart people are sometimes
quite arrogant because they believe in what they believe in right and so when
they face criticism it's less likely to admit you know they they can make
mistakes was that in your case I learnt it when I
was doing when I was studying physics mm-hmm the the you know in physics
you're taught to always question yourself you're taught to always assume
that you're wrong not to seem that you're right and you have to prove
yourself not not wrong and so I think that that that
physics framework is really where where I learnt it and it's very effective for
under for learning counterintuitive things that aren't obvious mmm-hmm so
you are very famous in saying that failure is actually an option and if
you're not failing but that means you're not in all they doing yeah it's not like
I like failure your likes failure was terrible but if you only do things that
are certain to succeed then you're only gonna be doing a very obvious thing did
you think I need to pack this in Devin why not
I don't ever give up I'd have to be dead or completely incapacitated when
interview someone to work in the companies to be to ask me to tell me
about the problems that they worked on and how they solved them and if someone
was really the person who solved it they'll be able to answer multiple
levels they'll be able to go down to the brass tacks and if they would they'll
get stuck and then you can say oh this person was not really the person who
solved it because anyone who struggled hard with a problem never forgets
gonna make sure that whatever you're doing is a great product or service and
it has to be really great and I go back to what I said earlier where if you're a
new company I mean this it's like some new industry or new market that added if
it's an untapped market or then then you have more ability to give is this the
standard is lower for your product or service but if you're entering anything
where there's an existing market place against lodge entrenched competitors
then your product or service needs to be much better than theirs it can't be a
little bit better because then you put yourself in the shoes of the consumer
and they say why would you buy it as consumer we're just gonna pry the
trusted brand unless there's a big difference so a lot of times you know
entrepreneur will come up with something which is only slightly better and it's
it's not you can't just be slightly better it's got to be a lot better if
you're creating company or if you're joining a company the most important
thing is to I I try it is to attract great people so either be with join a
group that's amazing that you really respect before if you're building a
company you've got to gather great people I mean all the company is is a
group of people that have gathered together to create a product or service
and so depending upon how talented and hardworking that group is and degree to
which they'll focused cohesively in a good direction that will determine the
success of the company so do everything you can to to gather
great people if you're creating a company really liking what you do
whatever area that you get into given that you know even if you if you're the
best the best there's always a chance of failure so I think it's important that
you really like whatever you're doing if you don't like it life is too short if
you like what you're doing you think about it even when you're not working I
mean it'll just it's something that your mind is drawn to and and if you don't
like it you just really can't make it work I think depending on how well you
want to do particularly if you're starting a company you need to work
super hard so what is super heart mean well when my brother and I were starting
our first company instead of getting an apartment we just rented us a small
office and we slept on the couch and we showered at the YMCA and we're so hot up
we had one computer so the the website was up during the day and I was coding
at night seven days a week all the time and I sort of briefly had a girlfriend
in that period and in order to be with me she had to sleep in the office so I
work hard like it mean every waking hour that's that's the the thing I would I
would say if your particular if you're starting a company and I mean if you do
simple math to say like okay if somebody else is working 50 hours and you're
working 100 you'll get twice as done as much done in the course of a year as the
other company so many people try to talk me out of starting a road company it was
it was crazy one good friend of mine collected a whole series of videos of
rockets blowing up and made me watch those you just didn't want me to lose
all my money we're doing these things that seem unlikely to succeed and we've
been fortunate and these thus far they have succeeded now is the time to take
risk you don't have kids as you get older your obligations increase so your
and once you have a family you start taking risks not just before yourself
but for your family as well it gets much harder to do things that might not work
out so now is the time to do that before you before you have those obligations so
I would encourage you to take risks now to do something bold you want to regret
it you focus on on signal over noise a lot of companies get confused they they
spend money on things that don't actually make the product better for
example at Tesla we've never spent any money on
advertising we put all the money into R&D and manufacturing and design to try
to make the car as good as possible and I think that's that's the way to go
before for any given company just keep thinking about are these efforts that
people are expending are they resulting in a better product or service and if
they're not stop those efforts how did you figure you were gonna start a car
company and be successful at it well I didn't really think Tesla would be
successful I thought we were most likely failed but I thought that we at least
could address the false perception that people had that an electric car had to
be ugly and slow and and boring like a golf cart but you say you didn't expect
the company to be successful then why try if something is important enough you
should try even if they probably outcome as failure what Tesla your goal has been
to make a better car and you've done that with an electric vehicle that
people covet that has quite a cult following that's upgradable but you also
want to achieve and your turn of phrase is very nice or try to achieve this
Platonic ideal of a car right to reach your perfection so what does the perfect
car look like well I'm gonna do I do use that phrase with our assuring sign team
that aspirationally we're in pursuit of the Platonic ideal of the perfect car
and here's what that looks like actually but it's I want to try to make every
element of the car as as flawless as possible and they'll always be you know
some degree of imperfection but try to minimize that and create a car that is
just a line fill in every way and I think if you do that then the rest kind
of takes care of itself doing business sometimes requires no
assistance and sometimes could be very boring do you have the same fun from
innovation as from business running a business well just an innovator engineer
instead of a business owner or runner I mean I'd love to just do innovation work
and just do engineering but you raise a good point because you know a lot of
life in general in any job there's like you have to do your chores you know
there's no nobody can do that for you well it's yet I think to be successful
at almost anything you can't if you have to do the tough stuff and as well as the
enjoyable stuff you have to do the boring stuff as well as the non boring
stuff and if you don't do your chores then bad things will happen but if they
don't do the things that they don't like to do then the company will be in
trouble yeah like you have to basically be like it's more fun to cook the meal
than to clean the dishes okay but you need to clean the dishes do SpaceX and
you've said that your ultimate goal is to get humankind to Mars I've heard your
response to the question but these guys need to hear it why is Mars important
why does Mars matter sure well the it's really a fundamental surgeon we need to
make as a civilization you know what kind of future do we want do you want a
future where we have forever confined to one planet until some eventual
extinction event however far in the future that might occur or do we want to
become a multi-planet species and and then ultimately be out there among the
stars me among many planets many star systems and I think the latter is a far
more exciting and inspiring future than the former and and Mars is the next
natural step in fact it's the only planet we really have a shot at at
establishing a self-sustaining city on and and I think once we do establish
such a city there will be a strong forcing function for the improvement of
spaceflight echnology that will then enable us to establish colonies
elsewhere in the solar system and ultimately extend beyond the
beyond our solar system and and so there's the defensive reason of
protecting the future of humanity ensuring that the light of consciousness
is not extinguished should some calamity before earth but also and that's the
defensive reason but personally I find the more the word what it gets me more
excited is is the fact that this would be an incredible adventure maybe like
the greatest adventure ever and it will be exciting and inspiring and they need
to be things that excite and inspire people yeah
you have to be you know reasons why you get up in the morning it can't just be
solving problems it's got to be yeah something something great is gonna
happen in the future yeah we talked about this at length yesterday it's it's
not an exit strategy or a back-up plan humankind earth fails right it's also to
inspire people on earth right and to transcend and to seek to go beyond our
mental limits of what we think we can achieve right I mean I think it's sort
of how incredible the Apollo program was and just yeah I mean if you ask anyone
and to name name some of humanity's greatest achievements in the 20th
century the Apollo program landing on the moon would wouldn't it and in many
of my most places be number one 2001 with just just touring a friend of mine
and you asked me yes we was gonna have to pay pal and I thought well you know I
was wondering like I'd like to get involved in space but I I just didn't
think there was anything for you as an individual and but as curious as to win
we wintered NASA would be sanding a team to Mars because that was always gonna be
the thing to do after I've moved I figured that there'd be some plan and I
just go to websites and I could read the you know the schedule then Mars there's
oh yeah it's like okay 2017 good okay but actually there wasn't anything on on
the website and at least I thought like I cannot find it
like what's going on right here and it's a secret I don't know I said but it
turned out that that NASA had done a study on what it would cost us and to do
a manned Mars mission and I this was under Bush the first and I suppose he
asked for a 90-day study short left taking office and NASA came back with a
500 billion dollar price tag and he said okay maybe not billion IV that's been
500 billion dollars with serious money in for the government so I so then that
got totally shelf and it was like you were not allowed to talk about any kind
of crude mission to Mars at NASA anyway so I thought well if I can do something
that word galvanize public interest that and then that public interest would
translate to additional appropriations for NASA whose the budget then maybe
they could do it so the foot so actually what I sort of thinking I would do is
send out a small greenhouse the surface of Mars or seeds in dehydrated gel and
then upon landing hydrate the gelatine or the plants and the public tests
respond to precedents and superlatives so this would be the farthest that
life's ever traveled the first life on laws I try to subtract I got how to do
this with the proceeds that I had from from PayPal and I was able to figure out
how to get the cost of the spacecraft down and the communications and and the
little of greenhouse and everything but the one thing I couldn't compress was
the cost launch because there only a few options and the us options were way too
expensive and they ended up going to Russia three times to try to buy the
biggest ICBM and the Russian nuclear fleet
that's where I'd start yeah yeah go baby well yeah I mean okay but they it was so
there were some strange trips that's for sure
but you know it's like virtually like you can buy any it's a very capitalist
society some ways so I actually didn't go she had a deal to buy two of the
ICBMs - the nukes but I came to conclusion have that third trip that it
wouldn't really matter like you for the food
I actually came inclusion that my initial premise was was was wrong
because I actually think there's as tourists about a will in the American
population particularly to to explore the United States
you know maybe more than any other country is a distillation of the human
spirit of exploration and it's really fundamental to psyche so if people think
there's a way I think it actually get a lot of support but but then it can't be
just banging your head against the wall I gotta believe that this can be done
without breaking the federal budget so that's when I said okay well is there
some way to affect the cost of space transport and an is good and it's hope I
got together with a group of people of her series of Saturday's just to just
try it outside is there something super expand 'mentally super expensive about
rockets or can the cost be substantially improved and I had a bunch of those kind
of brainstorming sessions and I couldn't see I couldn't say any fundamental
obstacle to improving the cost of rockets so
and that's when I started SpaceX it's like I'll just build them myself yeah
and then but I said at that point I would say the probability of success was
definitely less than 30% I thought it would most likely not succeed but was
worth a try
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