INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST JONATHAN THOMPSON HAS COVERED
ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES IN THE WEST FOR MORE THAN TWO
DECADES.
MR.
THOMPSON WAS ONCE THE EDITOR OF HIGH COUNTRY NEWS
AND HE HAS A NEW BOOK OUT ABOUT THE GOLD KING MINE
SPILL.
HE SAT DOWN WITH CORRESPONDENT LAURA PASKUS TO TALK ABOUT
WHAT HAPPENED IN 2015 AND HOW IT MAY CONTINUE TO IMPACT THE
REGION.
>> JONATHAN THOMPSON WELCOME TO NEW MEXICO INFOCUS.
WE ARE HERE TODAY TO TALK ABOUT YOUR NEW BOOK, RIVER OF
LOST SOULS, THE SCIENCE, POLITICS AND GREED BEHIND THE
GOLD KING MINE DISASTER.
CAN YOU TELL US, THE RIVER OF LOST SOULS, WHERE IS THAT?
>> THAT IS THE ANIMAS RIVER, IS THE OFFICIAL NAME AND RUNS
FROM THE SAN JUAN MOUNTAINS IN SOUTHWESTERN COLORADO DOWN
THROUGH DURANGO AND THEN TO FARMINGTON, NEW MEXICO, WHERE
IT RUNS INTO THE SAN JUAN RIVER.
>> WHY DO THEY CALL IT THAT?
>> THAT IS A GOOD QUESTION.
ACTUALLY THE FIRST GUY WHO CALLED IT SOMETHING LIKE THAT
WAS A SPANISH EXPLORER JUAN RIVERA AND ACTUALLY HE CALLED
IT, TURNS OUT, RIVER OF SOULS.
RIO DE LAS ANIMAS.
AND THEN SOME TIME LATER, PROBABLY LIKE THE FIRST
INSTANCE I HAVE BEEN ABLE TO FIND IS 1880'S, SOMEBODY
STARTED CALLING IT RIVER OF LOST SOULS.
I GUESS THEY THOUGHT THAT SOUNDED BETTER AND THEN PUT A
STORY WITH IT TOO OF WHY THEY CALLED IT RIVER OF LOST SOULS.
THEY THOUGHT THAT JUAN RIVERA CALLED IT THAT BECAUSE EITHER
A BUNCH OF UTE PEOPLE HAD FALLEN IN THE RIVER AND
DROWNED OR MAYBE SOME OF HIS GUYS HAD FALLEN IN THE RIVER
AND DROWNED OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
IT IS KIND OF A FALSE STORY AND A FALSE NAME BUT IT IS
WHAT STUCK AND IT IS WHAT I GREW UP KNOWING THE RIVER AS
SO THAT IS WHY I USED THAT TITLE.
>> ALL RIGHT.
SO, IN 2015 A CREW DOING EXPLORATORY CLEAN-UP WORK AT
AN ABANDONED MINE IN SOUTHERN COLORADO, THERE WAS AN
ACCIDENT AND MINE WASTE WAS RELEASED INTO THE RIVER.
FOR OUR VIEWERS WHO MAYBE AREN'T FAMILIAR WITH WHAT
HAPPENED, CAN YOU GIVE US A RUNDOWN ON WHAT HAPPENED THAT
DAY.
>> YEAH.
SO, THIS WAS THE GOLD KING MINE, ABOVE SILVERTON,
COLORADO AND THE LAST TIME IT WAS WORKED WAS PROBABLY IN THE
1920'S WITH ANY CONSEQUENCE, AND IT WAS DRAINING WATER LIKE
A LOT OF THE ABANDONED MINES DO.
AND THAT WATER WAS ACIDIC AND LOADED WITH HEAVY METALS.
AT SOME POINT ALONG THE ROAD THE ROOF COLLAPSED OF THE MINE
AND THAT CREATED A DAM AND SO THAT WATER, INSTEAD OF RUNNING
OUT, SOME OF IT WAS BACKING UP AND BACKING UP AND BACKING UP.
THAT HAPPENED ACTUALLY FOR YEARS.
AND THEN IN 2015 THE EPA HAD BEEN KIND OF CALLED IN TO TAKE
A LOOK AT SOME MINES AND TRY TO SEE WHAT MAYBE THEY COULD
DO. AND THIS WAS ONE OF THEM.
THEY HAD JUST FINISHED UP ON ANOTHER MINE AND IT WAS
GETTING TOWARDS THE END OF THE SEASON AND THEY WERE GOING TO
PUT THIS ONE OFF BUT THE CONTRACTOR DECIDED OR SOMEBODY
DECIDED TO GO UP AND TAKE A LOOK.
AND THEY WERE GOING TO POKE AROUND AND SEE WHAT IS GOING
ON.
SO THE OPENING OF THE MINE HAD BEEN BACKFILLED WITH DIRT.
AND THE EPA, THESE CONTRACTORS, STARTED SORT OF
DIGGING INTO THAT DIRT WITH AN EXCAVATOR, A BIG SCOOP.
THEY WERE TRYING TO GO IN FROM THE TOP SO THEY COULD LOOK IN
AND KIND OF SEE WHAT WAS GOING ON BUT INSTEAD THEY BASICALLY
BREACHED THE DAM THAT WAS HOLDING ALL THAT WATER BACK.
AND AT FIRST IT JUST STARTED KIND OF SPURTING OUT AND THEN
IT WAS THIS TORRENT, THIS HUGE TORRENT OF THIS THREE MILLION
GALLONS OF THIS ACIDIC, HEAVY METAL LADEN WATER BURST OUT
AND IT WAS BRIGHT ORANGE.
>> WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THAT?
WHO TOOK RESPONSIBILITY OR WHO WAS AT FAULT AND WHO WAS
AFFECTED DOWNSTREAM?
>> IT WAS -- SO IT TURNED BASICALLY THE RIVER ORANGE FOR
PROBABLY 100 MILES DOWNSTREAM, ALL THE WAY DOWN TO FARMINGTON
AND SAN JUAN RIVER AS WELL.
SO, BASICALLY, EVERYBODY WAS AFFECTED TO SOME EXTENT
DOWNSTREAM.
THE EFFECTS WERE SORT OF HARSHER FOR THE PEOPLE WITH
STRONGER CONNECTIONS WITH THE RIVER.
SO IT WAS KIND OF STRANGE BECAUSE SILVERTON, WHEN IT
WENT THROUGH SILVERTON, THE FIRST TOWN, IT WAS DEFINITELY
STRONGEST.
THE CONCENTRATION OF THE CHEMICALS AND METALS IN THERE
WAS STRONGEST THERE BUT IT DIDN'T AFFECT THEM THAT MUCH
BECAUSE THEY DON'T DO MUCH WITH THE RIVER.
THEY DON'T HAVE AGRICULTURE.
IT IS TOO COLD TO SWIM AND THEY DON'T GET THE DRINKING
WATER OUT OF THERE.
BUT AS YOU WENT DOWNSTREAM TO DURANGO, YOU HAD THE RAFTING
INDUSTRY THAT HAD TO SHUT DOWN FOR SEVERAL DAYS.
YOU HAD IRRIGATORS AND THEN AS YOU GO FURTHER DOWNSTREAM AND
YOU HIT THE NAVAJO NATION, THERE THEY HAVE A MUCH
STRONGER CONNECTION TO THE WATER SO EVEN THOUGH THE
CONCENTRATIONS WEREN'T AS STRONG, THEY WERE MORE DEEPLY
AFFECTED FOR SURE BY IT.
>> SO, WHO OPERATED THAT MINE?
WHY WAS THAT MINE OUT THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE?
>> IT WAS STARTED BACK IN 1887 BY THIS SWEDISH IMMIGRANT, YOU
KNOW, LIKE SO MANY PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THOSE MINING TOWNS, HE
HAD COME TO AMERICA TO GET A BETTER LIFE AND HE HAD SEEN
THIS PLACE AND THOUGHT THAT THERE WAS GOING TO BE A VEIN
THERE OF GOLD AND STAKED A CLAIM AND HE QUIETLY WORKED IT
FOR A WHILE AND THEN HE DIED.
HE PROBABLY DIED BECAUSE HE OVER WORKED.
THIS WAS LIKE HIS SIDE JOB.
HE WOULD GO UP THERE AT NIGHT AND DO IT BY HAND BY HIMSELF,
WHICH IS KIND OF WEIRD BECAUSE BACK THEN THEY WOULD NORMALLY
STAKE A CLAIM AND GET EASTERN CAPITALISTS TO FINANCE IT.
AFTER HE DIED, HIS WIDOW SOLD THE CLAIM AND THEN IS WHEN THE
CAPITALISTS CAME IN AND TURNED IT INTO ONE OF THE MOST
PROFITABLE MINES IN THE REGION.
AND IT WENT GANGBUSTERS UNTIL ABOUT 1908 AND THERE WAS A BIG
FIRE AND SOME MISMANAGEMENT ISSUES AND STARTED GOING
DOWNHILL AND IT SHUT DOWN IN BASICALLY THE 1920'S.
AND IT WAS NEVER REALLY MINED AGAIN EXCEPT FOR A LITTLE IN
THE '70'S AND '80'S, BUT, SO, THIS IS A STORY THAT IS
REPEATED OVER AGAIN IN THE SAN JUAN MOUNTAINS AND ACROSS
MINING COUNTRY, ALL OVER THE WEST AND YOU HAVE GOT THESE
THINGS EVERYWHERE.
SO IT IS SORT OF A SITUATION, YEAH, SORT OF THE SAME OLD
STORY KIND OF THING.
AND IT WAS OWNED OR STILL IS OWNED BY A GUY WHO WANTED TO
TRY TO MINE IT AGAIN, BUT NEVER WAS ABLE TO GET THE
RIGHT PERMITS OR WAS ABLE TO GET ENOUGH MONEY.
SO, IT NEVER HAPPENED, WHICH IS PROBABLY VERY FORTUNATE FOR
HIM, BECAUSE HAD HE GONE IN THERE AND GOTTEN PERMITS FOR
IT AND THEN THAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED, HE WOULD HAVE BEEN
LIABLE.
BUT INSTEAD IT WAS BASICALLY THE EPA WHO WAS LIABLE FOR THE
SITUATION.
>> CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT?
IN TERMS OF THAT TREND OF ABANDONED MINES IN COLORADO
AND IN THE WESTERN UNITED STATES AND OTHER PLACES, I AM
GUESSING, WHO BECOMES RESPONSIBLE FOR CLEANING UP
THOSE MINES, TAKING CARE OF THEM, PAYING FOR THE
REMEDIATION?
IN MOST CASES THE TAXPAYER, UNFORTUNATELY, BECAUSE OF --
BASICALLY BECAUSE OF FEDERAL LAWS THAT WERE NOT THERE FOR
SO MANY YEARS.
THE 1872 MINING LAW WHICH IS WHAT -- WHICH STILL OPERATES
AND IS STILL INTACT, UNBELIEVABLY, THAT BASICALLY
SAID YOU COULD STAKE A CLAIM, MINE A PIECE OF LAND.
BACK, ORIGINALLY, AFTER FIVE YEARS YOU ACTUALLY GOT
OWNERSHIP OF THAT LAND, STRAIGHT TITLE TO IT.
BUT YOU WOULDN'T HAVE TO PAY ANY ROYALTIES ON IT.
THERE WAS NO STATE LAWS OR ANYTHING FOR MANY YEARS THAT
SAID YOU HAD TO CLEAN UP AFTERWARDS.
SO, BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, THERE IS NO LAWS.
SO, THAT IS HOW IT WORKED OUT TO BE THAT WAY AND THEN OVER
TIME LAWS HAVE BEEN PUT IN PLACE.
SO YOU CAN'T DO THAT ANYMORE, BUT FOR THESE MINES THAT WERE
ALREADY DEVELOPED, THERE IS NOT MUCH YOU CAN DO.
SO, IT WAS ALREADY ABANDONED BY THE TIME THE LAWS WERE PUT
IN PLACE.
SO THERE IS NOT MUCH YOU CAN DO.
BASICALLY THE TAXPAYER ENDS UP FOOTING THE BILL UNLESS THERE
IS -- IN SOME CASES, IF THERE IS ANOTHER MINING OPERATION
GOING ON NEARBY, THE EPA MIGHT BE ABLE TO GO AFTER THEM AND
SAY, HEY, YOU HAVE TO HELP US PAY TO CLEAN UP THESE
ABANDONED MINES.
>> YOU GREW UP IN DURANGO AND LIVED IN SILVERTON, TWO MINING
TOWNS THAT HAVE CHANGED QUITE A BIT.
DO YOU HAVE A SENSE OF HOW WESTERN TOWNS THAT HAVE RELIED
ON MINING IN THE PAST CAN KIND OF MOVE INTO A MORE
SUSTAINABLE ECONOMIC FUTURE IN THE 21ST CENTURY?
>> YEAH.
I MEAN IF YOU LOOK AT ASPEN, PARK CITY UTAH, THESE ARE ALL
TOWNS THAT WERE HARD CORE MINING TOWNS AND THEY MOVED
ON.
IT HAS BEEN MORE -- AND DURANGO MOVED ON.
DURANGO WAS NEVER KIND OF WHAT YOU CONSIDER A PURE MINING
TOWN.
IT WAS MORE OF A MINING SERVICE TOWN, WHERE THEY WOULD
SERVICE THE MINES THAT WERE FAR AWAY.
SILVERTON WAS A TRUE MINING TOWN AND SILVERTON HAS A
LITTLE BIT HARDER OF A ROW TO HOE BECAUSE THEY ARE VERY
ISOLATED.
THEY ARE NEVER GOING TO HAVE AN AIRPORT THERE.
YOU WOULDN'T WANT TO LAND AND TAKE OFF IN AN AIRPLANE THERE.
THE SKI AREA IS PRETTY REMOTE, STEEP TERRAIN, SO THEY DO HAVE
A SKI AREA BUT IT IS NEVER GOING TO BE A SUPER RESORT.
SO IT IS TOUGH FOR IT TO KIND OF FOLLOW THE SAME PATH.
SO, SILVERTON DEFINITELY HAS TO FIND ITS OWN WAY.
AND MY GOAL OR MY IDEAL FUTURE FOR SILVERTON WOULD BE THAT IT
WOULD BE A LABORATORY FOR THESE ABANDON MINE CLEANUPS; A
PLACE WHERE YOU COULD HAVE TRULY HAVE A RESTORATION.
>> THE BOOK TOUCHES ON THE ENERGY ECONOMY IN THE SAN JUAN
BASIN.
LOOKING AHEAD TO THE FUTURE IN THE SAN JUAN BASIN OIL AND GAS
DEVELOPMENT, WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE HAPPENING THERE?
>> YEAH, I MEAN SO I DID INCLUDE THAT, OF COURSE, NOT
RELATED TO THE GOLD KING MINE BUT THE REASON I DID THAT IS
BECAUSE I WANTED TO SHOW THAT THE CONTEXT IN WHICH THE GOLD
KING MINE SPILL OCCURRED AND THAT THERE ARE OTHER THINGS
THAT ARE MAYBE WORSE THAN THE GOLD KING MINE SPILL HAPPENING
EVERYDAY.
THAT INCLUDES A LOT OF THE THESE DEVELOPMENT OF OIL AND
GAS AND IN THAT CASE, YOU KNOW, I MEAN SAN JUAN BASIN
HAS BEEN SO HEAVILY DRILLED FOR SO LONG THAT IT IS GOING
TO BE TOUGH TO -- NOW IT IS KIND OF GOING AWAY, GAS,
NATURAL GAS PRICES ARE VERY LOW.
THE INDUSTRY IS FADING BUT IT IS CLINGING ON DESPERATELY,
BUT MY HOPE THERE IS THAT -- MY HOPE IS THAT FARMINGTON AND
THOSE COMMUNITIES THERE GET PROACTIVE RIGHT NOW AND START
TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO DIVERSIFY THE ECONOMY AND
FIGURE OUT WHAT IS NEXT BECAUSE THIS ISN'T GOING TO
LAST FOREVER.
IN THE MEANTIME, I WOULD ALSO HOPE THAT THEY PUT SOME OF
THEIR INGENUITY AND RESOURCES INTO SOLVING SOME OF THE
PROBLEMS THAT THEY HAVE CAUSED, THAT THE INDUSTRY HAS
CAUSED, FOR EXAMPLE, THE METHANE HOT SPOT THAT I THINK
EVERYBODY KNOWS ABOUT, FIGURING OUT WAYS TO BUILD AN
INDUSTRY AROUND FIXING LEAKS AND REDUCING METHANE EMISSIONS
WOULD BE GREAT.
>> THANK YOU JONATHAN THOMPSON FOR JOINING US ON NEW MEXICO
INFOCUS.
>> THANK YOU.
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