♪ [THEME MUSIC] ♪
>>> WELCOME TO "ITALICS,"
TELEVISION FOR THE
ITALIAN-AMERICAN EXPERIENCE.
I'M YOUR HOST, ANTHONY
TAMBURRI.
ON THIS EPISODE OF "ITALICS," AN
HOUR-LONG SPECIAL DEDICATED
TO WOMEN'S HISTORY MONTH,
WE'LL SPEAK WITH TWO HISTORIANS,
ANNA PIZZUTI, A SCHOOL TEACH WHO
CREATED AN HISTORICAL
DATABASE EXTREMELY RELEVENT
TODAY. AND MARCELLA
BENCIVENNI, TEACHER AT HOSTOS
COMMUNITY COLLEGE IN NEW YORK
AND CURRENT EDITOR OF THE
ITALIAN AMERICAN REVIEW.
JOINING US IN THE CENTER OF
MANHATTAN, ANNA PIZZUTI IS A
HISTORY OF ITALIAN TEACHER.
WHO FOCUSED ON FASCISM,
NAZI ANTI-SEMITISM LONG BEFORE
THE DAY OF REMEMBERENCE
IN 2000.
THE PUBLICATION OF HER BOOK, LED
TO HER CREATING THE WEB DATABASE
OF THE INTERMENT OF JEWS BY
ITALIAN FASCISTS. A PROJECT
THAT COULDN'T BE MORE
NECESSARY TODAY.
>> HISTORIAN, TEACHER AT
HOSTOS AND AUTHOR, DR.
MARCELLA BENCIVENNI IS
THE CURRENT EDITOR OF THE
ITALIAN AMERICAN REVIEW.
SHE IS HERE IN OUR STUDIO
TO TALK ABOUT THE PEER REVIEW
JOURNAL AS WELL AS HER OWN
RESEARCH AND PUBLISHED
WORKS. WELCOME TO ITALICS
MARCELLA.
>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING
ME HERE. IT'S MY PLEASURE.
>> SO LET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR
BACKGROUND. YOU'RE SOMEONE
WHO GREW UP, WAS BORN,
GREW UP, WENT TO COLLEGE
IN ITALY. CAME HERE WITH AN
MA TO DO THE DOCTORAL PROGRAM.
HOW DO YOU SEE THINGS THROUGH
THAT LENS OF AN ITALIAN WHO
COMES TO AMERICA WHO THEN
DOES ITALIAN AMERICAN STUDIES.
>> SO I CAME TO NEW YORK
WITH A DEGREE FROM THE
UNIVERSITY. I GRADUATED
IN MODERN LANGUAGES
AND LITERATURE SO VERY
DIFFERENT FROM WHAT I END
UP STUDYING HERE.
AND I ORIGINALLY HAD NO IDEA
THAT I WAS GOING TO END UP, YOU
KNOW, TAKING A Ph.D. I HAD
RECEIVED A FELLOWSHIP FROM THE
UNIVERSITY OF COLUMBIA TO DO
MORE RESEARCH ON MY SENIOR
THESIS, WHICH I HAD WRITTEN ON A
GROUP OF NEW YORK RADICAL
INTELLECTUALS IN THE 20th
CENTURY.
MY IDEA WAS TO COME HERE, I CAME
AS A VISITING STUDENT AND
THOUGHT I WOULD GO BACK TO
ITALIAN AND FIGURE SOMETHING
OUT.
I WAS EXTREMELY LUCKY AT NEW
YORK UNIVERSITY, THEY GAVE ME
THE OPPORTUNITY TO COMPLETE A
MASTER IN SUPPORT OF MY
ITALIAN FELLOWSHIP.
INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH, I CAME TO
BE FASCINATED AND INTERESTED IN
AMERICAN HISTORY.
>> TO AN EVEN MORE PARTICULAR
SECTOR OF ITALIAN-AMERICAN
STUDIES, AND THAT IS
ITALIAN-AMERICAN RADICALS.
>> THE KIND OF REVOLUTION THAT
IS TAKING PLACE IN THE FIELD OF
AMERICAN HISTORY, WHICH WAS
COMPLETELY RESHAPED BY THE NEW
SOCIAL HISTORY, BY POST-MODERN
STUDIES AND FOUCAULT.
A LOT OF OPPORTUNITIES FOR
INTERDISCIPLINARY RESEARCH.
I WAS ABLE TO COMBINE WHICH
OLDER INTEREST IN LITERATURE
WITH MY NEW INTEREST IN AMERICAN
HISTORY, AND EVENTUALLY
IMMIGRATION HISTORY.
>> AND YOU SAY YOU DID GERMAN
AND ENGLISH, ENGLISH WAS FROM
THE UNITED KINGDOM-
>> IT WAS ACTUALLY BRITISH
LITERATURE.
BUT INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH, MY
PROFESSOR WAS ACTUALLY FROM NEW
YORK.
AND SO HE'S THE ONE WHO BEGAN TO
INTEREST ME IN ISSUES OF RADICAL
CULTURE.
HE GAVE ME AT THE TIME A BOOK TO
READ BY ONE OF THE FEW ITALIANS
WHO WAS DOING AMERICAN HISTORY.
THAT'S HOW IT STARTED.
I WAS FASCINATED BY THE
CONTRADICTIONS OF AMERICAN
SOCIETY AND AMERICAN HISTORY IN
PARTICULAR.
AND AGAIN, THE FIELD OF ETHIC
STUDIES, WHEN I WAS STUDYING
HISTORY, WAS BECOMING A REALLY
INTERESTING FIELD.
IT WORKED REALLY WELL.
>> WHEN DID YOU DEVELOP AN
INTEREST IN ARTURO IS A FIGURE
REALLY MORE KNOWN BY THE
HISTORIANS.
>> THAT'S TRUE.
>> HE WAS A PRETTY PROLIFIC
WRITER.
>> ONE WHO OPENED THE DOOR FOR
ME TO ITALIAN-AMERICAN STUDIES.
I WAS AT THE TIME DOING A
RESEARCH PAPER ON A VERY POPULAR
MAGAZINE OF A RADICAL NATURE IN
NEW YORK.
AND I WAS LOOKING AT SOME OF THE
ARTICLES, AND I DISCOVERED THIS
ARTICLE BY SOMEONE WHO CLEARLY
HAD A LAST NAME OF GIOVANNITTI.
I WAS CURIOUS ABOUT HIM AND MY
DESTINY WAS SET TO EXPLORE THE
LARGER WORLD OF WHICH HE WAS A
PART.
AND I WAS ACTUALLY STUNNED BY
WHAT I DISCOVERED.
I DIDN'T REALIZE, YOU KNOW, AT
THE TIME THAT, YOU KNOW, I
REALLY THOUGHT ORIGINALLY HE WAS
AN EXCEPTION, YOU KNOW, THAT HE
WAS A UNIQUE FIGURE, YOU KNOW,
SOMEONE WHO WAS BOTH WELL-KNOWN
WITHIN THE ITALIAN-AMERICAN
COMMUNITY BUT ALSO SOMEONE WHO
HAS STRONG CONNECTIONS TO
AMERICAN LABOR UNIONS AND, YOU
KNOW, AMERICAN INTELLECTUALS.
HE WAS A REGULAR, YOU KNOW,
ATTENDEE OF LITERARY SALONS IN
NEW YORK, AND THESE POEMS
APPEARED IN SOME OF THE MAJOR
RADICAL MAGAZINES OF THE TIME.
WHAT I DISCOVERED WAS HE WAS
REALLY A PART OF THIS LARGER
WORLD.
HE WAS A VERY NOTABLE FIGURE BUT
THERE WERE MANY OTHERS WHO
SUPPORTED THIS MOVEMENT.
AND I WAS REALLY TAKEN BY
SURPRISE BY THE EXTENT TO WHICH
THIS RADICAL WORLD PROVIDES THE
RICHNESS AND THE WAY IT
OPERATED.
>> HE WAS A GREAT LABOR ACTIVIST
THAT I THINK WE'RE ONLY
DISCOVERING IN THE NOW MAYBE
DECADE OR SO, THANKS TO YOU,
BECAUSE YOU DEDICATED A
SUBSTANTIAL CHAPTER TO HIM IN
YOUR BOOK THAT CAME OUT A FEW
YEARS AGO.
SO, YOU KNOW, IT SEEMS THAT THE
AMERICANS, THE NON-ITALIAN
AMERICANS KNOW BETTER THAN THE
ITALIAN-AMERICANS TO SOME
DEGREE.
"THE ITALIAN-AMERICAN REVIEW"
YOU'VE STARTED THIS PAST
SEMESTER.
>> THE LAUNCHING SIX YEARS AGO,
I'VE SEEN THAT, YOU KNOW, THE
JOURNAL GROWING YEAR AFTER YEAR,
JUST BEING IN THE EDITORIAL
TRANSITION THERE
IS A LOT OF WORK
BETWEEN THE ACTUAL TAKING THE
OFFICIAL JOB, AND I ALREADY SAW
THE AMAZING WORK THAT BOTH MY
PREDECESSOR AND THE TEAM HAS PUT
TOGETHER.
SO, YOU KNOW, THE JOURNAL HAS A
VERY GOOD, YOU KNOW, INTERNAL
THEME.
IT HAS ESTABLISHED A VERY
RIGOROUS AND SCHOLARLY PEER
REVIEW PROCESS.
AND I CERTAINLY WILL CONTINUE IN
THAT DIRECTION.
AND ALSO, I THINK IT HAS
EXPANDED IN THE SAME DIRECTION
THAT I WANT TO GO, IT REMAINS A
SOCIAL SCIENCE JOURNAL, BUT LIKE
JOE BEFORE ME, I'M VERY
INTERESTED IN INTERDISCIPLINARY
CONNECTION, IN COMPARATIVE
ANALYSIS, IN TRANSNATIONAL
NETWORKS AND CONNECTIONS.
SO I WOULD SAY THAT WHAT I HOPE
TO DO IS TO CONTINUE TO DO THE
WORK THAT HAS BEEN DONE AND TO
CONTINUE TO ENHANCE THE FIELD OF
ITALIAN-AMERICAN STUDIES THROUGH
THE JOURNAL AND TO HOPEFULLY
CONTRIBUTE TO EXPAND ITS
REPUTATION, FROM AN ACADEMIC
POINT OF VIEW BUT ALSO IN TERMS
OF MOVING BEHIND THE NARROW
CIRCLES OF ITALIAN-AMERICANS
AND HOPEFULLY MAKE OTHER
PEOPLE READ AND APPRICIATE WHAT
WE HAVE TO OFFER.
>> YOU'VE BEEN INVOLVED WITH THE
JOURNAL AS A READER.
YOU'VE BEEN AN EVALUATOR, WE'RE
NOT DIVULGING ANY SECRETS.
>> ONE OF MY VERY FIRST
ARTICLES, IN FACT, WHEN THE
JOURNAL WAS BRIEFLY EDITED BY
CONNIE STRADA, I HAD AN ARTICLE
ON FOUCAULT WHICH I'M STILL
VERY, VERY PROUD OF.
>> HOW DO YOU SEE IT IN THE LAST
FEW DECADES?
>> I THINK IT'S EXCITING.
THAT'S ONE WORD THAT COMES TO MY
MIND.
IT'S CONTINUING TO EXPAND.
AND AGAIN, IN INTERESTING WAYS.
I SEE THESE FROM THE WHITE
VARIETY OF TOPICS THAT ARE BEING
EXPERIENCED, THANKS TO THE
DISCIPLINE CONNECTIONS.
THAT STRIKES ME AS A LITTLE
DIFFERENT FROM THE WAY I WAS
TRAINED IN ITALIAN-AMERICAN
STUDIES, PEOPLE TODAY, PEOPLE IN
THIS FIELD ARE VERY MORE
COMFORTABLE, YOU KNOW, COMBINING
DISCIPLINES.
ALSO I THINK THERE ARE MORE
CONVERSATIONS ACROSS THE SIDES
OF THE OCEAN, AND ALSO PEOPLE IN
THE FIELD ARE STARTING TO BE
MORE COMFORTABLE IN BOTH
LANGUAGES.
I THINK ONE OF THE BIGGEST
CHALLENGES EARLIER ON WAS THAT
NOT TOO MANY ITALIAN-AMERICANS
KNEW ITALIAN AND NOT TOO MANY
ITALIAN-AMERICANS ON THE ITALIAN
SIDE REALLY KNEW ENGLISH WELL
ENOUGH TO NAVIGATE.
AND I THINK THAT HAS CHANGED.
THERE'S A HUGE STRENGTH IN THAT.
AND I ALSO THINK THAT THERE IS
WAY MORE INTEREST IN THE ITALIAN
MIGRATION AS A GLOBAL
PHENOMENON.
I THINK THAT WHAT MAKES
ITALIAN-AMERICAN STUDIES REALLY
EXCITING AND STILL A FERTILE
FIELD IS THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF
NEW WAYS IN WHICH YOU CAN LOOK
AT IT BY LOOKING AT COMPARISON
WITH OTHER COUNTRIES OR GLOBAL
NETWORKS, AND EVEN MY OWN
SPECIFIC EXPERTISE ON RADICALISM
IS WHERE PEOPLE ARE MAKING
CONTRIBUTIONS AND DISCOVERING
NETWORKS OF ANARCHISTS IN LATIN
AMERICAN TO BRITAIN, YOU KNOW,
BACK TO ITALY.
IT'S FASCINATING.
ITALIAN-AMERICAN STUDIES HAVE SO
MUCH TO OFFER IN TERMS OF
LESSONS FOR, YOU KNOW,
CONTEMPORARY IMMIGRATION, FOR
IDENTITY POLITICS, AND REALLY TO
DO A BETTER JOB AT CATEGORIZING.
>> CERTAIN EXECUTIVE ORDERS THAT
HAVE BEEN OUT THAT HAVE BEEN
RATHER BLANKET EXECUTIVE ORDERS.
WE CAN GO BACK AND LOOK AT OUR
ANCESTORS' EXPERIENCE AND BRING
THAT AS A LENS, SO TO SPEAK.
>> EXACTLY.
>> SO WE CAN LOOK AT THE
CONTEMPORARY, WHETHER HERE IN
THE UNITED STATES OR IN ITALY,
LOOKING AT IMMIGRATION TO ITALY
TODAY COMPARED TO THE
EXPERIENCES OF THE ITALIANS IN
NORTH AMERICA, IN AUSTRALIA, THE
ANGLOPHONES HAD IT HARDER THAN
IN LATIN-AMERICA, IT WASN'T EASY
FOR THEM EITHER BUT THERE
WAS SOME SIMULARITY OF
CULTURE I THINK THAT THEY
DIDN'T FIND AT ALL IN THE
ANGLOPHONE WORLD.
>> I BEGIN TO LOOK AT THE
TRIANGLE FIRE OF 1911, WHICH TO
THESE DAYS IS STILL THE BIGGEST
WORK TRAGEDY IN THE HISTORY OF
THE UNITED STATES.
AND WHAT STRUCK ME AGAIN ABOUT
THIS EVENT IS THAT ALTHOUGH 42
OF THE 146 PEOPLE DIED IN THE
FIRE WERE ITALIAN WOMEN.
AND IT'S KNOWN, IT'S NOT LIKE WE
DON'T KNOW.
THE EVENT HAS RECEIVED MORE
ATTENTION, BOTH FROM SCHOLARLY
POINT OF VIEW BUT FROM THE
GENERAL PUBLIC, THEN OTHER
TOPICS IN AMERICAN HISTORY.
AND IT IS THE FIRE THAT CHANGED
AMERICA.
BUT I WAS REALLY STRUCK BY THE
FACT THAT THERE ARE NO SCHOLARLY
STUDIES ON IT FROM THE
PERSPECTIVE OF ITALIAN
IMMIGRATION.
RECENTLY THERE WERE A NUMBER OF
ITALIAN-AMERICAN SCHOLARS WHO
ARE ACTUALLY DEALING WITH THIS
TOPIC.
AGAIN, IT'S VERY RECENT.
I'VE BEEN INTERESTED IN
QUESTIONS ABOUT MEMORY, WHY THIS
EVENT THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN
ESSENTIAL EVENT IN THE PUBLIC
MEMORY OF ITALIAN-AMERICANS, WHY
IT IS NOT.
EVERY SINGLE GENERAL HISTORY OF
ITALIAN-AMERICANS THAT I HAVE
REVIEWED MENTIONS IT.
BUT WE DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THE
NAMES OF THE VICTIMS.
THERE IS NO WAY THAT THIS HAS
BECOME -- SHOULD BECOME REALLY A
CENTRAL MOMENT FOR THE
ITALIAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY, AND
IT IS NOT.
>> THE TRIANGLE SHIRT WAIST
FACTORY COLLECTIVE OR COMMITTEE
WAS REALLY SPURRED ON BY
NON-ITALIAN-AMERICANS.
THE OTHER LARGE GROUP OF WOMEN
WHO DIED WERE JEWISH IMMIGRANTS
OR DAUGHTERS OF JEWISH
IMMIGRANTS.
>> THAT'S WHAT STRUCK ME, WHERE
THE EVENT WAS REALLY A MAJOR
ROLE, HAS OCCUPIED A MAJOR
POSITION WITHIN JEWISH HISTORY,
WOMEN'S HISTORY, WHY NOT IN
ITALIAN-AMERICAN HISTORY, OR
EVEN ITALIAN HISTORY.
>> EXACTLY.
>> SO I STARTED AN ARTICLE, AND
I ALSO STARTED A PROJECT WHICH
WILL BE MY FIRST BIOGRAPHY, A
BIOGRAPHY OF A RADICAL, MASANI,
HE WAS A COMMUNIST, BUT MORE
THAN A COMMUNIST, HE WAS REALLY
AN ANTI-FASCIST.
HE CAME HERE WITH HIS FAMILY TO
ESCAPE FASCISTS IN 1924.
AND HE ROSE TO BECOME A REALLY
SUCCESSFUL INTELLECTUAL.
AND HE CONTRIBUTED TO THE WAR
EFFORT IN MAJOR WAYS BY BEING
ONE OF THE FIRST TO BE HIRED IN
THE SERVICE, THIS TOPIC IS
REALLY EXCITING BECAUSE OF
EVERYTHING GOING ON WITH
NATIONAL SECURITY.
MARZANI BECAME THE FIRST VICTIM
OF THE COLD WAR.
HE WAS ACCUSED OF HAVING LIED
DURING AN INTERVIEW AND NOT
MENTIONING HIS PAST COMMUNIST
AFFILIATIONS, AND HE SERVED
ALMOST TWO YEARS IN PRISON.
BUT AGAIN, WHAT I THINK IS
INTERESTING ABOUT HIM, IT'S NOT
JUST THIS POLITICAL CASE, IT IS
THAT HIS EXPERIENCE, YOU KNOW,
AS AN ANTI-FASCIST, AS AN
IMMIGRANT, AS SOMEONE WHO LOVED
AMERICA MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE,
BUT WHO ALSO WAS VERY CRITICAL
OF AMERICA.
AND THERE IS A BEAUTIFUL QUOTE
ABOUT HIM WHO SAY, YOU KNOW,
THIS IS THE ONLY TIME THAT I
KNOW WHO IS STILL IN LOVE WITH
THE UNITED STATES.
>> MARZANI IS SOMEONE WHO WAS
IMPORTANT AND HAD ACTUALLY DONE
HIS OWN AUTOBIOGRAPHY AND
PUBLISHED IT HIMSELF.
THANK YOU FOR JOINING US TODAY.
>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME
AGAIN.
>> THANKS FOR WATCHING THIS
EPISODE OF "ITALICS" HONORING
WOMEN'S HISTORY MONTH.
I'M ANTHONY TAMBURRI.
♪ [THEME MUSIC] ♪
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