Hi my name is Hayden and today I brought my sister
Hi.This is Jamie and today
we're going to talk about how when one sibling comes out what the other
sibling goes through and well many times when there's a coming out
story we never really get to hear about what families go through or what the
sibling goes through and ... everyone has their own experiences when
someone comes out and so today I wanted to talk to my sister and have a
conversation about the things that she had to go through and the things that
she saw my parents go through.
I came home to my sister... I think.. do you know
when? 2009, 2010? 2009 because I was a junior in high school
was it 2009 yeah and also my first cut my hair -
do you remember like how you felt? Or even know what you said? I do.
So I remember thinking.. (So up into the point where like you had actually told me
that I like girls? No, you didn't say it out like that. It kind of came out when we
were talking about ... I don't know if it was about a friend or something and up
into that point you had been throwing hints at me whether I think it was
through social media or something you're throwing hints at me..
But I kind of ignored it. Thinking "oh it's just kind of a coincidence" or "she's just being quirky" or whatever
and then I asked you something flat out and
your answer to it was a very "Well, like don't you know?"
like "Don't you know I'm gay?" type of answer
I don't know. I can't really remember exactly
I don't remember either. Yeah I don't remember exactly
but then I remember thinking...
I remember telling you
"You're not gay like you don't know what you're talking about "
"It's just a phase and like you're just confused
right now and you know everyone gets confused once in a while but you're not gay"
I would have known when you're a kid and you're not gay and then that
was the end of that conversation and I think we had a phone conversation again
Everything was on the phone. Really? No way. Yeah it was all on
the phone. I remember that because I remember after that conversation. Why were we on the phone?
What were we talking about? We were barely ever on the phone.
No it was on the phone I remember. Oh I don't know why we're on the phone but we
were on the phone and then I didn't talk to you for a few days
and then I think I called you back and no no you called me back and then I was
in the phase of like 'anger' right because I feel like.. when at the time too,
I was like very much into church. I wouldn't say I was like a bible thumper
but I was very, at least in our Catholic Church, or the way we were brought up in
in religion.. Guilt was like a really big thing and I said I remember thinking
like praying thinking "Oh my gosh you know like she's not gay because she's
already
like she already has a really difficult life already, you know.
She's already had such a difficult life because I remember like she never really
got along with people in high school and I remember you know obviously with your
like heart condition and all guys like you've already had such a tough life and
on top of it you have to deal with something like this
and so I remember thinking you know like she's just confused and like God will
like figure it out and you know like He wont put this on her too you know
because, at that point, I knew, even at that young age, it's like it's not
something that you choose. It's something that you're born with and you can't help
it and it's not something that needs to be fixed you know but it's just some
people are gay and that's just that and I just felt like what are the odds that
like everything worked against her and in the sense that you know like life
is just so much harder.. like one after the other, you know like praying I remember praying
but it wasn't the case and then the second phone call I remember almost like
yelling at her I was so mad I was and it wasn't even mad at her I was just mad at
like the world you know? Like why do you have to put so much on like one person
like that? and I was just telling her like you're not gay like it's just a
phase, you know. You're not gay and so um I think we went like a few weeks
without talking because I think you realize how like upset I was but I think
maybe you I don't know why I thought I might have been upset but I think maybe
you thought I was upset because you were gay but I was more upset that you know that
oh shit like it's just gonna be like a harder life and I think that
was my main concern. My main concern was.. you know like during that time when
you when you see things about the LGBTQ community
at the time I remember just whenever it was in the news or in social media it was
always only negative where someone was being attacked, someone would kill,
someone would being bullied at school, or someone have been suicide and that was
actually one of my main fears I was I was just afraid that you would go into
this really really deep depression or something in that it was something that
like I couldn't help and that was the reason why I was upset like I was upset
because I just didn't want that kind of hardship on you and I think we went a
few weeks without talking and then I think I think I called you back and I
said you know like "I don't care" like "it's okay" like "I accept I accept you for
who you are" like I remember that phone call because I felt so bad leaving the
conversation the way I did and so so yeah and then after that I think I think
you to ask me to like not say anything or something and I was like yeah I like
the of course it's not something that's mine to share and so I just kept it to
myself and you know and like it just got so much easier like after
I had the time to process it and think if
this is how I'm reacting as a sister I can't imagine how other people would
treat her and the least I could do is accept her and you know be there with
her when she's happy like if that's what she feels she is and she identifies that
way like the least I to do is support that as a sister and if I can't even do
that like who does she have you know and so I
felt up it was my duty as a sister to just
let her do her and when I said it out loud you know to her saying like
it's okay like I don't care I accept you it just got easier like it it was it
just got easier to just think you know like everything's okay like nothing's
changed you know
how I felt so I was kind of
angry yes because I thought you wouldn't care but I didn't know you were you
didn't except because of the fear but I was angry because I
thought you did accept because you didn't accept the fact that I was gay
but it was angered me because you had friends who were gay and you were totally fine with that
Right. So that goes I guess to my next point I felt betrayed
Right. So I actually remember thinking that way um you know
like growing up like you want to think that or you want people to perceive you
as someone or at least for me I always consider myself someone who is accepting
and like very open-minded and I don't judge people typically um in the sense
where like I like I'm like prejudice and I treat them differently. Everyone judges
people somehow but like I just you know I don't treat people differently based
on whatever you know anyway um and I remember you know everyone was saying like
oh yeah like I have gay friends like I am totally okay with you know gay people
like I accept people you know I accept everyone whether or not they're gay,
straight, bi or whatever but it doesn't matter but then I remember thinking when you
did come out to me wondering like why is it why is it so
difficult for me to just be okay with it? When I have gay friends and
and I'm totally fine with that and I think and I dont know how other siblings
feel but I think for me it was just so close to home you know. When it's a
stranger or when it's a friend, not even the best friend, just a friend. They're
not, it sounds kind of crass, but they're not that important to you.
Whatever they're going through in their life, is not that important to you
whether it was whether it's like adversities from you know them being gay
and being you know discriminated against or they're treated differently
It's not 'not important to you' but
you think it probably doesn't like impact you or it makes a difference on your life. Right.
cuz you're not that close to them. I think it's well I think
to me it was not important because... how is it going to affect your life kind
of important? No.. it's like I don't care. I didn't care right. but then
when you came out to me it was like the immediate thing is like fear like
the immediate thing I felt was fear like hurt your like your well-being and your
safety and that was like a genuine fear I had and that's not something that I
had ever experienced with a friend or like a complete stranger you know and so
I think that was what was so difficult for me to accept because not
that you were gay, not that it wasn't that I didn't like (you were gay)
It was that I was afraid. It was almost selfish right because I felt you know if
you are gay and you just stay closeted, at least you're safe, at least
people aren't going to attack you, at least our family isn't going to give you
a hard time. You're safe. That's also depending on how you act and
depending on how you present yourself. Right. And this is when I was younger so
I wasn't thinking about... I was thinking more like the external
effects of people. I wasn't thinking about the internal struggles that you
would feel if you had bottled it up. So at the time, like I wasn't thinking
that far ahead and so my immediate thing was just my fear that like automatically
your life is going to be more difficult like people are going to treat you and
look at you differently. My fear of our parents you know...
What would they say? What would they do? and like How do I? What do I do
as a sister to like help mediate that you know? and so I think that was
that was why it's more difficult for me, when the close family member comes out.
After a while you just kind of like got over it Yeah you do and I did.
I mean you get used to it, you get over it. But were you still feeling
that fear? I still do like when you are here and you visit and you're out with
your friends or you tell me even when you're back home and you tell me you're
going out with your friends. In the back of my mind I always worry like
Is something gonna happen? But what's different if I go out if there was me
versus like a straight me. Like what's the difference? Because, on top of
on top of the regular.. I guess on top of all the dangers already of going out
late at night and being.. I don't know susceptible to dangerous people.. on top
of that there are sick people out there, who target
People who target LGBTQ. I think I think on top of just the normal dangers
of you know people going out by themselves and random people you know
It's just like a paranoia, but on top of that there's one more that I have
to think about. So did you feel anything when Orlando happened?
um like frustrated
and angry
because for a while.. in the news and on social media
They tell you about everyone's stories. All the victims' stories and
what they're doing with their life and you know why they were there... like some
people were like celebrating a birthday or whatever. I guess I didn't
directly associate it with you but I was angry that anyone would just do
something like. It's an anger that you can't... you kind of feel hopeless
because you think no matter what you do there's always going to be someone who's
fucking crazy (am I allowed to cuss? :P)
There's always going to be someone like who's fucking crazy
and there's always going to be people like that
No matter what you do and in a way you just feel so hopeless
Did you ever think that I would be in that situation or I could be in that situation?
yeah
especially like if I come to the states and guns are allowed here. Yea after a while
that definitely dawned on me. I thought that was a place that
Hayden would go and yeah it may not be in California but crazies are
everywhere or even if things are illegal firearms illegal.
If you have the will, there's a way.
If you really want to do
something you're going to somehow obtain what you need to get it done and this is
what people like that do. what kind of person are you that you
have all that time and energy, on top of your normal life,
if you have one.. to put it in this and like Why are you so focused?
I guess that's my question.Why are you so fixated on that? like what is going
on in your own life? Are you angry because maybe you might be
closeted? Are you angry because you're projecting your anger?
maybe your parents don't accept you or your family doesn't accept you or you
can't accept yourself and so you project that on other people
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