[Chris Ellis] What follows is an informal chat about the upcoming Bitcoin chainsplit in November,
.. most commonly referred to as "SegWit2x." In this conversation, Gibus, MrHodl, and others
.. ask Bitcoin Core developer Luke-Jr (@LukeDashjr) for his opinion
.. about replay protection and the possible security risks.
The content found herein should be taken as open-minded conversation.
Cryptocurrency is an emerging topic of research and you're encouraged to carry out your own due-diligence.
We'd love to get your feedback.
If you have any corrections, please post them in the comments below.
[Gibus] I'm just a little more worried than MrHodl about this SegWit2x thinking,
that if we have 95% of the miners switch over, without replay protection, we'd just end up
.. with two chains, where one is basically confirming and the other one is just having
.. a more and more clogged up memepool. As you can't split the coins (in my understanding),
.. then really there's just a 'functional' and a 'non-functional' chain.
It would be really, really hard to get people to just wait with 5% hashrate.
We're talking like 40 weeks for difficulty re-target. I'm scared that people will just go with the 2x chain.
As this time, the market can't just dump one and hold the other, you know? Did you get any of that, Luke?
[LukeDashjr] Yeah, I think so. You can split the coins, however.
[Gibus] You can?
[LukeDashjr] Yes, it's just not automatic on the fork day.
[Gibus] How would you go about this? Is there a way to...
[LukeDashjr] The locktime check should work.
[Chris Ellis] Ah, you put an end locktime on it. [Gibus] Hmm. [Chris Ellis] That's interesting.
[MrHodl] I didn't think of that. [Chris Ellis] Yeah. [davyd] Haha, you're like "Luke, help me!"
[davyd] And then he helped! [Chris Ellis] The smart person comes in and schools us all.
[Gibus] So end nLockTime.. wait, how would that not go into two chains?
[LukeDashjr] First you send the one for the chain that's further, with more blocks,
.. with the end locktimes that will only confirmon that chain.
Then you double-spend it with replace-by-fee (RBF) on the other chain.
[Gibus] Okay. How could that not be replayed on the original? Okay, yeah.
It's got confirmed on the first one.
[LukeDashjr] You don't even need RBF, really.
The locktime will prevent it from getting mined on the slower chain anyway.
[MrHodl] Holy shit, so you could split coins with no replay protection?
[Gibus] Yeah. [LukeDashjr] Yes, you just need to actually make an effort to do it.
[MrHodl] Until somebody automates it, until somebody sets something up, right?
[Gibus] How would you do it without replace-by-fee though, because...
.. I got the first way, but the second way I'm not sure.
[LukeDashjr] Well, say that the faster blockchain is 200 blocks further than the slower blockchain...
[Gibus] Yup. [LukeDashjr] .. then you use the lock and you say:
"The block height has to be block #200," for example."
The faster blockchain will confirm that immediately and the slower blockchain...
.. won't even relay the transaction until it gets to that block, which could be-
[MrHodl] Ah! [Gibus] Great. Thank you. [MrHodl] Haha... [Gibus] That's a good one.
[Gibus] So it takes some time, but it's pretty easy after this. Okay.
[LukeDashjr] Yeah. I mean, if you don't have- I guess in this case there's no chance...
.. of reorg, but in other cases if the faster blockchain wasn't significantly faster,
.. it would get wiped out by the other chain anyway.
[?] I hear you. [Gibus] Thanks for clearing that up. That's already a pretty important aspect,
.. it reassures me of it. But we still have the problem that... Okay, it's a big "if," but...
.. if they have 90-95% and are sticking with it, if this is really a grand plan to force us,
it's still going to be a very long battle.
[LukeDashjr] There's no reason to think that they have that much hashrate anyway.
[MrHodl] That's what I said! Just like what I said.
[Gibus] Yeah, we're just trying to see, we're theorising the worst case scenarios.
But what do you think? Do you have anything to share on this? How do you think this is going to play out?
Close to Bcash? Very low support? Can you hear me, Luke?
[LukeDashjr] Yeah, I thought you were asking someone else something.
[Gibus] No, I was wondering what your thoughts were, if you had a rough prediction...
.. of how this is going to go? Do you have any idea?
[davyd] Haven't you seen his fork?
[davyd] It's the only one he- [LukeDashjr] Well, if we learned anything from UASF,
.. miners just won't do it. [Gibus] Hopefully, yeah.
But they hadn't signed for Bcash. We all know the New York Agreement
.. and when they signed it is kind of bullshit, because they didn't even sign for code.
Some of them didn't know the exact details. But theoretically they're saying they still have...
.. a majority of the hashrate moving over. Not to take- It probably won't happen that way,
but you're not worried at all? [LukeDashjr] Bcash changed the difficulty adjustment...
.. so that it would adjust down to meet the lower difficulty, whereas 2x - if they split off - they're going...
.. to just have a close-to-zero price and they're not going to be making the money...
.. they need to pay their electric bill. [MrHodl] It all comes back down to the market, man.
That's what we were saying earlier. Maybe some could mine at a loss longer than others,
but as time goes on, less and less will be able to mine at a loss. It's only a matter of time...
.. before everyone turns back. [LukeDashjr] The only reason Bcash isn't at a loss
.. right now is because they adjusted the difficulty down. [MrHodl] They're still running at a loss.
[LukeDashjr] Not significant. [MrHodl] Yeah, not as bad as this would be.
All right Luke, thanks! That was our only concern. Thank you.
[Gibus] Yeah, thanks Luke! [ALL] Thanks!
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