Caller: Thank you, why do you say "Ya ´Ali madad"? Why do you take help from Hadhrat ´Ali (a.s.)?
Take help from God, what is that "Ya ´Ali madad" supposed to be?
Caller: You don´t know God and in your prayers you do also say: "It is You we worship and You we ask for help."
One has to be with God and not with ´Ali etc.
Shaykh Allahyari: Allow me to speak now and listen carefully.
Don´t you take the help from others besides God in your life?
Caller: Except from God we don´t take help from anybody.
Shaykh Allahyari: From your sister, brother, neighbours, students... don´t you take help from them?
Caller: Oh, ok. But that´s not shirk in the religion.
Shaykh Allahyari: Worshipping, we do also say that worshipping is shirk. Everyone says so.
If someone worships other than God, he´s a mushrik. But our discussion is about taking help (calling for help) and we didn´t worship them.
Shaykh Allahyari: Allow me to speak so that you´ll understand this and our faith.
Shaykh Allahyari: Allow me to speak and try to understand and if you interrupt you won´t understand, so listen.
Shaykh Allahyari: Yes, worshipping. Thus one becomes a mushrik.
Taking help does only mean to call for help. You said yourself that you call your sister, brother, people for help.
Shaykh Allahyari: Allow me to finish my sentence.
You ask them for help and, what´s the difference? Tell me the difference!
I take help from Amir-ul-Mu´minin (a.s.) and from the prophet (s.a.s.).
Caller: They´re not here anymore, the dead can´t hear and God is always alive and we don´t take help from dead.
Shaykh Allahyari: Ok, and if becomes proven that they´re alive, then what?
Caller: They were people (mortal).
Shaykh Allahyari: When the Qur´an says the following: "And never think of those who have been killed in the cause of Allah as dead. Rather, they are alive with their Lord, receiving provision" (Surah 3, verse 169).
Shaykh Allahyari: Wait and hear this verse, than you can talk.
And never think of those who have been killed in the cause of Allah as dead. Rather, they are alive with their Lord, receiving provision
Caller: But they don´t have power in this world (they can´t do anything).
Shaykh Allahyari: So they are alive?
Shaykh Allahyari: Allow me, step by step.
Shaykh Allahyari: Brother, you said in the beginning that it´s shirk because they´re not alive, and it has been proven that they are alive. Do you accept so far that they´re alive?
Caller: Ok, they´re alive.
Shaykh Allahyari. Ok, if they´re alive, allow me to speak and don´t interrupt.
You said yourself that taking help from the living is not shirk and we take it from the living.
And now you say that they can´t help and that it was something different.
Shaykh Allahyari: Allow me to explain. Someone can´t help you, e.g. a child which is 5 years old and you have a table which weighs 15-20 kg. The child can´t help you.
You called the child for help and said that it shall help, the child tried it´s best but didn´t make it. Have you thereby become mushrik?
Caller: No, then I wouldn´t become a mushrik.
Shaykh Allahyari: You asked someone who´s incapable of helping you. Let´s imagine that the prophet (s.a.s.) is a live and he can´t help or Amir-ul-Mu´minin (a.s.) can´t help.
You asked a child which is incapable of helping you for help and it said that it can´t help and you´ve not become a mushrik. Why then I´m a mushrik?
Caller: I did only say that one should ask from God only because he has a higher position than the prophet and Imams.
Shaykh Allahyari: If one asks God only, then why do you call your neighbour for help or the neighbour´s son or kuffar like Jews and Christians?
Caller: They are alive.
Shaykh Allahyari: The prophet (s.a.s.) is also alive, Amir-ul-Mu´minin (a.s.) too, you´ve accepted it.
Caller: We must only ask from God.
Shaykh Allahyari: Are you a scholar?
Caller: No, I´m not.
Shaykh Allahyari: Even if you´re not a scholar God has given mind to you.
First, I´ll explain this matter that you´ve said (the prophet and Imams) don´t have any power to help.
The prophet (s.a.s.) did only show to the moon and it split up (into two parts). Did the prophet (s.a.s.) do this with his physical power like his hand etc. or did he do that with the power of his soul?
Shaykh Allahyari: Which one?
Caller: With the power God has given him.
Shaykh Allahyari: Did he do it with the power of his soul or through physical power?
Caller: The power of the soul.
Shaykh Allahyari: The soul of the prophet (s.a.s.) is alive and miracles have been commited through it.
Shaykh Allahyari: You should either say that the prophet (s.a.s.) died and all of his advantages and miracles have been removed and if you say that then why? Bring the proof for that. Why was it taken away from him? And his position became lower.
He has advantages and when they´ve been taken away from him, why? What´s your evidence? From the Qur´an and the narrations and then we´ll listen.
If you don´t have a proof and this power belongs to his soul and not to the body, listen brother.
Shaykh Allahyari: You don´t want to understand, you´ve come here to debate and you can´t answer/discuss.
Shaykh Allahyari: If he´s done it with the power of his soul and his soul exists and is capable of helping.
First you´ve said that if he can´t help then you´re mushrik and you didn´t bring any proof why you can ask a child and don´t become mushrik.
And second: The prophet (s.a.s.) is alive and he can help and Amir-ul-Mu´minin (a.s.) as well and they do, those many miracles one can see and which are proven.
Caller: I wanted to say something. Shaykh Allahyari: Go ahead.
Caller: I´m Shi´a, meaning twelver Shi´a (ithna ashari) and God is my witness that I´m a true Shi´a.
Shaykh Allahyari: No, you´re Wahhabi, you´re aqida is from wahhabi, even if you show yourself as a Shi´a from the outside, but you´re a Wahhabi. I don´t have any doubts that you´re salafi, you´re wahabi and don´t understand what Shi´a is.
You deny the imams (a.s.), don´t say that you´re Shi´a, don´t lie. You´ve called from the wahhabi line and your aqida is the same as the of the wahhabis, you´re reasons also.
Caller: I don´t worship graves.
Shaykh Allahyari: Which non human said this. God curses those who worship graves and those who tell lies.
Shaykh Allahyari: It has to do with asking for help. What does it have to do with worshipping graves?!
Caller: You don´t know God.
Shaykh Allahyari: I don´t know God? Read Dua Kumail from the Shi´as; Dua Joshan Kabir we also read in the month of Ramadhan. This proofs that you´re ignorant.
Caller: -inaudible-
Shaykh Allahyari: What? Cursing?
Caller: One only asks from God and not from the imams and dead.
Shaykh Allahyari: You haven´t understood. Listen!
In 1 case it´s about worshipping, and you´re intelligence is very low, you think that asking for help and worshipping are one and the same.
You think that they´re the same. You think that if you ask somebody for help you´ll worship him, but that´s not the case.
Worshipping is one thing, calling for help another.
Dua, if this was worshipping of somebody and dua in the Arabic language means in many places worshipping and in many cases calling. And calling isn´t a problem. You do also call when you say: "Assalamu ´alayka ayyuhan nabi wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh"; and that´s in your prayers and you call him.
And this is not worshipping but calling. And God put this in prayer.
When 1 dua was worshipping which would mean to view someone as God and because he´s God or his partner or a minor God and then to humble oneself for him, that would be worshipping and shirk.
But asking for help resp. calling isn´t worshipping, I take help from this and that man.
People take help from animals. Farmers take the help of cows, donkeys, horses and taking help isn´t worshipping. That´s evident and obvious.
You take help from your wife, dad, boss, have you worshipped them all? This isn´t worshipping.
The prophet (s.a.s.) is alive according to the Qur´an. The prophet (s.a.s.) can help. The prophet (s.a.s.) can hear and hears us. And I´ve read the verses that he sees our deeds. And in your prayers you say salam to him.
So he listens and can help, and is alive. Then I take help from him. And I don´t view him as God. He´s the worshipper of God and the prophet of God. And I take his help. If you don´t understand then I cannot explain it better (simpler) than this.
If you refuse it, then do so.
Caller: Allow me to speak on another point. Shaykh Allahyari: Yes, please.
Caller: As I´ve said I´m "Shi´a" and I sweared on that I´m a twelver "Shi´a".
Shaykh Allahyari: It doesn´t work with swearing. Your faith is Wahhabi. Even if you swear, that won´t make you a Shi´a.
Caller: I had another question. Shaykh Allahyari: Fine, that´s your last question.
Caller: Why do you curse "Hadhrat" `Umar?
Shaykh Allahyari: Leave! This person claims to be Shi´a and in the end he asks why I curse ´Umar.
What´s Shi´a about you? The one who says such things is haramzadeh (illegitimate child/bastard). That´s no halalhazed (legitimate child).
Ask your mother what she did with the fruit seller that you became like this.
First, you claim to be Shi´a. Later you ask me why I curse ´Umar.
Are you a human or something else? If you´re a human, I´ve spoke about the reasons and showed the evidence.
1 example: He (´Umar) insulted the prophet (s.a.s.). If I insult you, you´ll become sad and don´t feel comfortable and the prophet (s.a.s.) didn´t feel comfortable.
And that he insulted the prophet (s.a.s.) is written in Bukhari and the Qur´an. Surah Hujurat and Hadith Qirtas.
And that made the prophet (s.a.s.) angry (and caused him much suffering).
Indeed, those who abuse Allah and His Messenger - Allah has cursed them in this world and the Hereafter and prepared for them a humiliating punishment. (Surah 33, verse 57)
So it has been prepared before that means that when ´Umar died he went to hell instantly. And there´s a humiliating punishment for him. He has been cursed in this world and in the next by God.
If someone gets cursed by God and God throws him into the fire (of hell) and is the murderer of the prophet´s (s.a.s.) daughter.
Then the one who doesn´t curse him is a haramzadeh.
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