Hello my foodies! I am here again with Aisha
to talk about the second part of the video about Theo's case.
For those who don't know, on Febrary, 11th there was a demonstration in front of Bobigny's Court to support Theo.
Aisha participated at the event and i wanted her to tell you what happened that day.
Aisha : So, i came a bit late (as usual).
I came around 5:00pm (the event started at 4:00).
It was really peaceful and quiet.
And the CRS (French riot squad) started to block and lock down everyone and everything.
Once you were in the demonstration, you could not leave.
We were in the park next to the law court, and the CRS were blocking exits.
It started like that, then some youngsters started to provoke CRS.
For us, it was really funny. There is a footbridge next to the spot, so the younsters were going on the CRS to provoke them,
but when CRS were coming to them, they were fleeing.
So we were laughing out loud. I personally laughed like crazy, same for my friends.
huum... I did not see everything but afterwards some people threw rocks...
Lily : Who did that? the youngs?
Aisha : yes, they did. But you know, CRS were carrying riot control shields!!
Aisha : so they were… Lily : they were ready… Aisha : they were ready...
So people started to throw rocks but... like in any other... well, i am used to go to demonstrations and this one was nothing...
Aisha : it was silly but… Lily : like a usual rock throwing!!
Aisha : well, this was completely silly, we are not questioning that, it was really stupid.
But it was nothing crazy...
With that said, it started going crazy because policemen started little by little to gaze the crowd.
They started to throw tear gas.
Lily : like it was nothing? Aisha : yeah...
Aisha : This is why everything went wrong cause
I also read in "Le Parisien" (a French newspaper) a testimony of a lady who said policemen were provoking the crowd.
She said they were, excuse me for the vocabulary, wanking their truncheon...
Only to provoke the crowd.
I did not see that, but just the fact that they threw tear gas that easily for no reason at all is really meaningful...
Lily : in the worse case, they could have isolated the one who were troublesome… Aisha : Yeah...
Aisha : they really started to throw tear gas on everyone and it started to make people upset.
You have to acknowledge that in this demonstration, there were youngs,
kids, mothers... people who only came to show their support and the CRS gazed everyone without distinction.
Then it started to go really wrong. People (youngsters i suppose) started to throw rocks on cars
They burnt RTL's (a French radio channel) car.
I thanked them by the way
I was in the side where it started to go wrong first.
And all the journalists were there. There was no journalist in the peaceful corner.
Aisha : they were looking for… Lily : shocking images...
Aisha : you also have to know that people living in suburbs hates journalists.
I grew up in Sarcelle and i don't like journalists, they are only there when things go wrong.
They are always trying to misrepresent us,
Aisha : they are never there to expose… Lily : to talk about real things. They are just looking for buzz Aisha : they are looking for sensationalism
Aisha : They also never give the floor to people who are concerned by the issue. So people don't like them.
So to me, burning RTL's car was really symbolic. Like : you guys are bothering us!
Really! So, for those who said "they burnt people's car!" No, they did not! They burnt RTL's car!
If other cars were burnt, it was because there were bins on fire so a thing leading to another, some cars were burnt.
But the aim wasn't to burn random cars.
I also heard that all the troublemakers were coming from Anti-Fas groups (anti fascists)
most of the time, members of those groups are white bobos so they have nothing to do with Theo.
But people (journalists) would say that it was Aulnay's youngters.
Knowing Aulnay's youngters, (i was there, i saw them) were like "pay attention", they were protecting people.
Aisha : they were putting them in safer places...
Lily : yeah, because they are coming from Aulnay (a French Ghetto), people are expecting them to be violent.
Aisha : yes but violent people were people who were not coming from Bobigny (another ghetto), sorry i said Aulnay but it was Bobigny.
or people from the anti-fas group who are often there to break things.
Aisha : you also have to acknowledge that in demonstration, there are troublemakers every single time!! Lily : yeah, everytime...
Aisha : everytime!! But as the demonstration was in Bobigny, they did not loose time. They quickly used tear… Lily : tear gas...
Lily : that's what we were talking about when we said in the last video that policemen consider people living in suburb or ghetto as a second-class citizens.
I don't think they would have reacted the same if the demonstration occured on the Champs Elysées.
Aisha : yes! it was the same for the new labour law, for the red hat...
it was as "violent" as this demonstration, the VTC (private taxis like uber)
Lily : who demonstrated… Aisha : yes, they demonstrated and they even burnt cars!
Nothing happened! But us, who have a legitimate reason to be upset,
knowing we did not commit those behaviours,
we are not defending "the cause" the right way and we are playing the FN's game (FN : Front National, a French right extremist party)
The FN did not waiting for us to think the way they do!
Aisha : even if it were pacific, they would have talked anyways. Lily : yeah, it wouldn't have changed anything...
Aisha : you also have to understand that the first violent acts were coming from the side of the CRS.
Aisha : First with they provocation, i wasn't there but i believe the person who reported it
so the provocation, then they gased us for no reason at all, at they did not stop there.
They started to gase everyone.
My friends and I were in the middle of the spot where they threw the tear gas.
I don't know if you already had to breath tear gas, for me, it was the first time,
but you can't breath by the nose or by the mouth, you have your throat in pain
Aisha : you have tears coming from your eyes.. Lily : it's awful! Aisha : it's awful!
Aisha : so we were looking for a way out
but the road was blocked
Aisha : they closed all the transportations. So even if you wanted to leave… Lily : you couldn't… Aisha : you couldn't!!
Aisha : you couldn't. You were going to the left, it was blocked, you were going to the right, you were gazed
Aisha : by tear gas. Lily : sorry i'm laughing but it's not funny at all Aisha : it's not…
Lily : i'm laughing because i'm chocked..
Aisha : you were like an animal in its... Aisha & Lily : …cage!!
Aisha : and they were (cops) taking us out where they wanted.
Aisha : Now, as a human think about it
whatever the human (she's talking about humanity as a whole, like "human right")
you are on the spot trying to leave and you are attacked where ever you go
do you really think it will calm the things down?
Lily : not at all! Aisha : well after that, it got worse!
Aisha : at that point, even me, if i have seen a policeman, i would have slap him in the face!!
Aisha : in response to the gaze... Lily : the policemen Aisha : yeah, the policemen and the violence, well "violence".
Aisha : to me, it's violence, i know some people would say "you are being polemical" but to me, being gazed for no reason at all is a violence.
so, in response to the policemen's behaviour, the youngs started to destroy bus stop shelters...
burn public bins..
They were not looking for trouble to begin with, it was a reaction.
it was really a reaction. Because policemen were looking for the youngs to be pissed off.
Aisha : These young acted in a really silly but... Lily : they are young... Aisha : yes, they are young, i don't hold any grudge against them
Aisha : i was also fed up... Luckily, i had a friend who came by car and he drove me back home because honestly, it was...
Lily : from outside, it gives me the feeling that policemen did everything on purpose Aisha : exactly!
Lily : Like "here look!!" Aisha : that's it!! Lily : Like : « here! we told you you will behave badly! » Aisha : that's exactly what they did!!
Lily : They ARE young, so they will be easy to tease. They will be more likely to react violently and to get easily angry.
Lily : i'm not surprised... Aisha : honestly : they were stupid, yes. But policemen managed the even in a wrong way
Aisha : let me explain : those who were behaving in a bad way represented 1% of those who were there, ok, let's be crazy and say 5%!
The majority of us were calm but they decided to gase everyone.
they created this disturbance climate.
they created the climate and guys, you really have to understand that fact.
don't listen those who are saying "poor policemen" blabla. No!
I came to this demonstration for Theo. I had no a priori or bad way of thinking.
I really went there because i thought i will be ok. In my head, i was really calm. I would have never gone there if i have known it will go this way.
Aisha : They really create... Lily : the climate for a riot... Aisha : ...the climate for the riot...
Aisha : when i think about what happened with the labour law, all the demonstration which occured in France :
they clearly created the riot.
They threw flash balls in the crowd.
I was on the phone with one of my friend and he told me he just recieved a...
(she was just questioning about the genre of the noun "flash ball" and if in french we say "un flash ball" or "une flash ball" as it's an english word)
Aisha : ..a flashball on the shoulder. Lily : they threw flashballs? Aisha : in the crowd!!
Lily : ok..So... flash balls...huum... why?
Lily : gazing people was not enough, they had to add flashball throwing?
Aisha : it's... yeah...
Lily : good job...
Aisha : the youngs who came to look for trouble were at fault
Aisha : no one would question that.
but from the begining, CRS behaviour was clearly to sow discorde.
Lily : i already participated to demonstrations, it was more peacefull, though, it was for veganism.
Aisha : … yeah with whites... Lily : and in demonstrations... xD
Lily : they are always people who are on the spot for bad reasons.
and in the demonstration i went, there were like 4 or 5 policemen with armbands with us.
When they located the one who were disturbing us, they just peacefully made them leave the path where we were.
They did that really smoothly, those people left and the walk began again.
So, if among a crowd they are some disturbance, it's easy to isolate it, there is no need to gase all the crowd.
I am sure it would have been easy to isolate them as policemen must have been really numerous...
Aisha : well, those policemen were obviously looking for confrontation...Obviously...
Aisha : after that event, i shut down all my social network.
Aisha : i was seeing things... even from some friends of mine like :
"how do you want our message to be taken seriously with those kind of behaviours??"
Aisha : really like... Lily : you weren't there.
Aisha : they weren't there! I don't like to judge people for no reason but this time, i WAS there.
Aisha : so i put every single of them to their place telling them "you were not there! Policemen were the one who were clearly looking for fight!"
Aisha : another thing which i don't really like...
Aisha : you shouldn't forget that this anger is logical. You mustn't tell someone who is upset how this person should feel or express his/her anger. It's not your place.
Aisha : you have to keep the context in any case. When a person is upset, there are reasons for it.
Aisha : right now, we are talking about Theo, but sorry to say that "he is a pretexte, his a symbol for everything which happened before and wich will happen after.
Aisha : so, you are not allowed to tell us how we should express our frustration.
You have the chance, i do to, to be able to be calm in those kind of situations.
I also can weigh my words, but it's not the case for everyone.
Aisha : Can we be upset with them because of that? Lily & Aisha : no!
Aisha : so yeah, there were troublemakers, but they were not coming for Aulnay nor Bobigny.
Aisha : it was youngs who came to look for trouble, but as we already told you, there are troublemarkers in every single demonstration.
The riot was created by CRS.
It was crazy.
Lily : well… i couldn't go to the demonstration.. Aisha : you took a good decision...
Lily : i am learning right now what really happened and i am really chocked...
Aisha : i was really upset after the event i shut all my networks down and i did everything not to watch BFM TV.
Normaly i don't watch that channel but after that, i really did EVERY THING not to watch it...
I shut everything down because i was reading really aberrant things.
Marine Le Pen who started to open her mouth to say that policemen were victims...
Lily : always... They are always the victims..
Aisha : yes, people shouldn't have thrown them rocks, but they shouldn't have gazed everyone.
There were mothers with their kids in the crowd..
Lily : i heard about that new law which would allow policemen to shoot... Aisha : ...in the crowd!
Lily : policemen would be allowed to use their guns as "gendarme" (= police officer. In france, their is a difference between "policier" and "gendarme". The "gendarme" dealth with criminal issues).
Lily : they will have more freedom regarding the use of their guns.
Aisha : yeah, a little bit like in USA.
Aisha : you shoot 2 times in the air to say that you are about to shoot the person and then you are allowed to shoot the suspect.
Lily : So we already have some issues with the CRS... Aisha : …and the flash balls..
Lily : we already have issues with CRS, flash balls and cops, sorry, policemen in general..
So if those policemen who were allowed to use their guns for specific reasons are now allowed to use them after some warnings
and can shoot people freely.. It's a real problem...
There is already a problem with the use of truncheon, if we allow them to use guns like this, we will have more and more troubles...
We really are in.... in trouble!
Aisha : talking about that, a lot of people asked me "regarding police violence, what are our options if we want to sue them?"
Aisha : in France, we have some tools, like "the rights defender"
you can go to see him/her if you are the victim, benefiacry or the witness of the police violence.
It's good to know that as a witness, you can contact him/her. But honestly, s/he has not a lot of power.
otherwise, you can look for national jurisdictions so : tribunal then court of appeal then court of cassation or concil of state, it depends.
It depends if it concerns private or public law. I will save you from the law lessons but you can go to the highest level.
If all these ways did not work, there is still the European Court of Human Rights
but for that matter, the only person who can make a request to this court is the victim.
Honestly, it's really really really long.
Lily : yeah, it's really long... Aisha : …there are a lot of condamnations and requests for the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR)
Aisha : against France for police violence.
And it has always taken 5 or 6 years to be judged.
knowing that a request was introduced in 1991 and judged in 1999.
Lily : ok. Aisha : Another one introduced in 2001 and judged in 2011...
Lily : yeah. So, there is a minimum of 8/10 years of waiting... Aisha : yes! And this is only for the ECHR.
You have to acknowledge that if you go to that Court, it means that you disagreed with all national Courts (those she mentioned earlier) you went before.
So first, it's really long. Second, regarding the inactivity of France, we can wonder if what the country does is effective regarding this issue...
but this are the ways at your disposal as a victim or witness of police violence.
Aisha : Finally, even if we are afraid for our kid's life and for ourselves, we don't have a lot of... Lily : means of defence..
Aisha : we don't have means of defence as a group. There is no class action for human rights.
Aisha : There are only class action for the right for the consumption... Lily : yeah, that's the class action i was thinking about...
Aisha : yeah, but class actions as in USA don't exist here in France.
Aisha : recently, they created a new class action, so now you can have 2 branches :
the right for the consumption and the anti competitive law.
If i am not mistaken, there is a new one (but to be checked) :
discriminations. But to be able to prove discriminations...
Aisha : it's gonna be really far fetched because you will have to justify that police violence are discriminatory and good luck for that...
Lily : it's really hard to prove. It's really hard to prove. In France, when you want to sue someone, you have to prove that person did a prejudice.
Aisha : there is not a lot of tools. And for those who say :
"police violence only occured in USA" , well, Theo, Adama, Mohammed, Alexandre,
Zyed, Bouna, all of these names...They show that no, it's not only an American issue
It's something which happens also in France, country of the "human rights!"
"state of law" "democracy" so, at a certain point, we have to stop thinking "yeah, but it's exceptional so...we should talk about that...
Lily : no! As soon as it happens, it should be punished!
Aisha : it's not that exceptional. It may be "rare" but not "exceptional".
Lily : voilà, that's all for today, do not hesitate to give your opinion in the comment section.
If you want to see my friend Aisha in another video to talk about subjects like afro feminism, intersecionality and so on, do not hesitate to ask for it in the comment section
Thanks for watching the video, i hope you learnt a lot of stuffs...
Aisha : please keep fighting for Theo. It mustn't be a movement like Adama, well, not him because it's still a current issue,
but we really have to keep fighting until we obtain justice.
We shouldn't let the fire extinguish.
Aisha and Lily : Voilà!!
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