- It seems to me that we should start from this overall vantage point:
- It seems to me that we should start from this overall vantage point:
- It seems to me that we should start from this overall vantage point:
- It seems to me that we should start from this overall vantage point:
- It seems to me that we should start from this overall vantage point:
how this topic came to you, and how you came write a book based on it.
how this topic came to you, and how you came write a book based on it.
how this topic came to you, and how you came write a book based on it.
how this topic came to you, and how you came write a book based on it.
how this topic came to you, and how you came write a book based on it.
how this topic came to you, and how you came write a book based on it.
how this topic came to you, and how you came write a book based on it.
how this topic came to you, and how you came write a book based on it.
Its subject hasn't been exhausted and very few people at all know there was a brothel
Its subject hasn't been exhausted and very few people at all know there was a brothel
Its subject hasn't been exhausted and very few people at all know there was a brothel
Its subject hasn't been exhausted and very few people at all know there was a brothel
Its subject hasn't been exhausted and very few people at all know there was a brothel
Its subject hasn't been exhausted and very few people at all know there was a brothel
Its subject hasn't been exhausted and very few people at all know there was a brothel
established in 1943 in the Auschwitz-Birkenau concentration camp.
established in 1943 in the Auschwitz-Birkenau concentration camp.
established in 1943 in the Auschwitz-Birkenau concentration camp.
established in 1943 in the Auschwitz-Birkenau concentration camp.
established in 1943 in the Auschwitz-Birkenau concentration camp.
established in 1943 in the Auschwitz-Birkenau concentration camp.
established in 1943 in the Auschwitz-Birkenau concentration camp.
Yes, but we would end up with a long answer taking up most of our time.
Yes, but we would end up with a long answer taking up most of our time.
Yes, but we would end up with a long answer taking up most of our time.
I'm a product of the 20th century, having spent most of my life in that century, the most murderous era in history.
I'm a product of the 20th century, having spent most of my life in that century, the most murderous era in history.
I'm a product of the 20th century, having spent most of my life in that century, the most murderous era in history.
I don't know if you've ever taken the trouble to count how many victims there were in the 20th century.
I don't know if you've ever taken the trouble to count how many victims there were in the 20th century.
- I haven't.
Well over 200 million. Starting from the madness of the 1st World War, through the 2nd, communism, fascism, then Asia, Africa and so on.
Well over 200 million. Starting from the madness of the 1st World War, through the 2nd, communism, fascism, then Asia, Africa and so on.
Well over 200 million. Starting from the madness of the 1st World War, through the 2nd, communism, fascism, then Asia, Africa and so on.
Well over 200 million. Starting from the madness of the 1st World War, through the 2nd, communism, fascism, then Asia, Africa and so on.
Just the Age of Nightmare, where WWII, the Holocaust, concentration camps, and Russian gulags were the worst parts of everything man had invented in the 20th century, and this has stalked me from childhood.
Just the Age of Nightmare, where WWII, the Holocaust, concentration camps, and Russian gulags were the worst parts of everything man had invented in the 20th century, and this has stalked me from childhood.
Just the Age of Nightmare, where WWII, the Holocaust, concentration camps, and Russian gulags were the worst parts of everything man had invented in the 20th century, and this has stalked me from childhood.
Just the Age of Nightmare, where WWII, the Holocaust, concentration camps, and Russian gulags were the worst parts of everything man had invented in the 20th century, and this has stalked me from childhood.
Just the Age of Nightmare, where WWII, the Holocaust, concentration camps, and Russian gulags were the worst parts of everything man had invented in the 20th century, and this has stalked me from childhood.
My generation was fed on WWII without any letup: this was Communist propaganda.
My generation was fed on WWII without any letup: this was Communist propaganda.
My generation was fed on WWII without any letup: this was Communist propaganda.
As school children, we had daytrips to concentration camps. Later as an adult, I tried to visit Auschwitz, although I'll admit I couldn't bring myself to do it until I was 40 or so.
As school children, we had daytrips to concentration camps. Later as an adult, I tried to visit Auschwitz, although I'll admit I couldn't bring myself to do it until I was 40 or so.
As school children, we had daytrips to concentration camps. Later as an adult, I tried to visit Auschwitz, although I'll admit I couldn't bring myself to do it until I was 40 or so.
The Holocaust has shadowed me: there are 5 Yad Vashem medal recipients in my family, and the wave of anti-Semitism, which has reared up again in Poland, also annoys me to the point that I felt this topic just finally caught up with me.
The Holocaust has shadowed me: there are 5 Yad Vashem medal recipients in my family, and the wave of anti-Semitism, which has reared up again in Poland, also annoys me to the point that I felt this topic just finally caught up with me.
The Holocaust has shadowed me: there are 5 Yad Vashem medal recipients in my family, and the wave of anti-Semitism, which has reared up again in Poland, also annoys me to the point that I felt this topic just finally caught up with me.
The Holocaust has shadowed me: there are 5 Yad Vashem medal recipients in my family, and the wave of anti-Semitism, which has reared up again in Poland, also annoys me to the point that I felt this topic just finally caught up with me.
The Holocaust has shadowed me: there are 5 Yad Vashem medal recipients in my family, and the wave of anti-Semitism, which has reared up again in Poland, also annoys me to the point that I felt this topic just finally caught up with me.
It happened… as usual, a little by accident, when the director Magda Łazarkiewicz proposed I consider writing a screenplay on this topic.
It happened… as usual, a little by accident, when the director Magda Łazarkiewicz proposed I consider writing a screenplay on this topic.
It happened… as usual, a little by accident, when the director Magda Łazarkiewicz proposed I consider writing a screenplay on this topic.
It happened… as usual, a little by accident, when the director Magda Łazarkiewicz proposed I consider writing a screenplay on this topic.
She directed me toward two historians, Joanna Ostrowska and Agnieszka Weselik, who explored the subject and wrote this document.
She directed me toward two historians, Joanna Ostrowska and Agnieszka Weselik, who explored the subject and wrote this document.
She directed me toward two historians, Joanna Ostrowska and Agnieszka Weselik, who explored the subject and wrote this document.
She directed me toward two historians, Joanna Ostrowska and Agnieszka Weselik, who explored the subject and wrote this document.
Suddenly, I saw this would be a way to face what has stalked me for many, many years.
Suddenly, I saw this would be a way to face what has stalked me for many, many years.
Suddenly, I saw this would be a way to face what has stalked me for many, many years.
Suddenly, I saw this would be a way to face what has stalked me for many, many years.
My novel is partly fictional: the characters are fictional, but all the facts are very accurately documented earlier by historians and I tapped into them.
My novel is partly fictional: the characters are fictional, but all the facts are very accurately documented earlier by historians and I tapped into them.
My novel is partly fictional: the characters are fictional, but all the facts are very accurately documented earlier by historians and I tapped into them.
This also grabbed me – and perhaps this most of all –the fact that these women were denied the status of Nazi victims.
This also grabbed me – and perhaps this most of all –the fact that these women were denied the status of Nazi victims.
This also grabbed me – and perhaps this most of all –the fact that these women were denied the status of Nazi victims.
This also grabbed me – and perhaps this most of all –the fact that these women were denied the status of Nazi victims.
Even during the war, they were ostracized by the rest of the prisoners in the camp and –
Even during the war, they were ostracized by the rest of the prisoners in the camp and –
Even during the war, they were ostracized by the rest of the prisoners in the camp and –
Even during the war, they were ostracized by the rest of the prisoners in the camp and –
Even during the war, they were ostracized by the rest of the prisoners in the camp and –
Even during the war, they were ostracized by the rest of the prisoners in the camp and –
after the war, they simply had to hide, feel guilty and be afraid of the truth about themselves. It's hard to judge people who reacted that way after the war.
after the war, they simply had to hide, feel guilty and be afraid of the truth about themselves. It's hard to judge people who reacted that way after the war.
after the war, they simply had to hide, feel guilty and be afraid of the truth about themselves. It's hard to judge people who reacted that way after the war.
after the war, they simply had to hide, feel guilty and be afraid of the truth about themselves. It's hard to judge people who reacted that way after the war.
From my and our contemporaries' point of view, it's a huge injustice. I always pose this question:
From my and our contemporaries' point of view, it's a huge injustice. I always pose this question:
From my and our contemporaries' point of view, it's a huge injustice. I always pose this question:
From my and our contemporaries' point of view, it's a huge injustice. I always pose this question:
who is certain of one's own behavior in a situation when starving, freezing and ill-treated, or could be brutally killed at any time, die of typhus or some other illness like dysentery,
who is certain of one's own behavior in a situation when starving, freezing and ill-treated, or could be brutally killed at any time, die of typhus or some other illness like dysentery,
who is certain of one's own behavior in a situation when starving, freezing and ill-treated, or could be brutally killed at any time, die of typhus or some other illness like dysentery,
who is certain of one's own behavior in a situation when starving, freezing and ill-treated, or could be brutally killed at any time, die of typhus or some other illness like dysentery,
who is certain of one's own behavior in a situation when starving, freezing and ill-treated, or could be brutally killed at any time, die of typhus or some other illness like dysentery,
who is certain of one's own behavior in a situation when starving, freezing and ill-treated, or could be brutally killed at any time, die of typhus or some other illness like dysentery,
and who can sure they wouldn't become a Kapo in such a situation? Or wouldn't become a snitch?
and who can sure they wouldn't become a Kapo in such a situation? Or wouldn't become a snitch?
and who can sure they wouldn't become a Kapo in such a situation? Or wouldn't become a snitch?
and who can sure they wouldn't become a Kapo in such a situation? Or wouldn't become a snitch?
Who in this situation is totally sure they would refuse such work as my novel's heroine decides on?
Who in this situation is totally sure they would refuse such work as my novel's heroine decides on?
Who in this situation is totally sure they would refuse such work as my novel's heroine decides on?
Who in this situation is totally sure they would refuse such work as my novel's heroine decides on?
- I think that at this point, for future readers of your book, we should clarify
- I think that at this point, for future readers of your book, we should clarify
that the Kommando Puff women are those who decided to become prostitutes
that the Kommando Puff women are those who decided to become prostitutes
that the Kommando Puff women are those who decided to become prostitutes
in exchange for food and the promise of being released after half a year of such work.
in exchange for food and the promise of being released after half a year of such work.
They simply deal with it and are the prostitutes Aryan prisoners had access to.
They simply deal with it and are the prostitutes Aryan prisoners had access to.
Yes, it is. I don't like the term Aryan but, in short, we know what was going on.
Yes, it is. I don't like the term Aryan but, in short, we know what was going on.
Yes, it is. I don't like the term Aryan but, in short, we know what was going on.
Yes, it is. I don't like the term Aryan but, in short, we know what was going on.
Yes, non-Jews. And women of Jewish descent weren't supposed to work in this brothel, either,
Yes, non-Jews. And women of Jewish descent weren't supposed to work in this brothel, either,
Yes, non-Jews. And women of Jewish descent weren't supposed to work in this brothel, either,
Yes, non-Jews. And women of Jewish descent weren't supposed to work in this brothel, either,
although it turns out otherwise in my novel, but I don't give any forewarning about this.
although it turns out otherwise in my novel, but I don't give any forewarning about this.
although it turns out otherwise in my novel, but I don't give any forewarning about this.
Yes, it was a sick SS idea to raise the performance of some of the more privileged male prisoners who worked, for example, at the IG Farben factory, or for those who were Kapos or camp functionaries.
Yes, it was a sick SS idea to raise the performance of some of the more privileged male prisoners who worked, for example, at the IG Farben factory, or for those who were Kapos or camp functionaries.
Yes, it was a sick SS idea to raise the performance of some of the more privileged male prisoners who worked, for example, at the IG Farben factory, or for those who were Kapos or camp functionaries.
Yes, it was a sick SS idea to raise the performance of some of the more privileged male prisoners who worked, for example, at the IG Farben factory, or for those who were Kapos or camp functionaries.
Yes, it was a sick SS idea to raise the performance of some of the more privileged male prisoners who worked, for example, at the IG Farben factory, or for those who were Kapos or camp functionaries.
These women were actually treated a little better, were well fed, had a lot of freedom to move around the camp, all the while their lives were in jeopardy:
These women were actually treated a little better, were well fed, had a lot of freedom to move around the camp, all the while their lives were in jeopardy:
These women were actually treated a little better, were well fed, had a lot of freedom to move around the camp, all the while their lives were in jeopardy:
These women were actually treated a little better, were well fed, had a lot of freedom to move around the camp, all the while their lives were in jeopardy:
for example, from very primitive abortions if they became pregnant or from burning their ovaries with an X-ray machine.
for example, from very primitive abortions if they became pregnant or from burning their ovaries with an X-ray machine.
for example, from very primitive abortions if they became pregnant or from burning their ovaries with an X-ray machine.
This procedure could lead to horrible internal injuries also ending in death.
This procedure could lead to horrible internal injuries also ending in death.
This procedure could lead to horrible internal injuries also ending in death.
So they weren't completely safe. The women had ten so-called clients a day and were still prisoners,
So they weren't completely safe. The women had ten so-called clients a day and were still prisoners,
So they weren't completely safe. The women had ten so-called clients a day and were still prisoners,
So they weren't completely safe. The women had ten so-called clients a day and were still prisoners,
but the promise of release in six months was really true only for German women, who were so-called criminal prisoners, some of them being prostitutes in their former lives and sent to the camp.
but the promise of release in six months was really true only for German women, who were so-called criminal prisoners, some of them being prostitutes in their former lives and sent to the camp.
but the promise of release in six months was really true only for German women, who were so-called criminal prisoners, some of them being prostitutes in their former lives and sent to the camp.
but the promise of release in six months was really true only for German women, who were so-called criminal prisoners, some of them being prostitutes in their former lives and sent to the camp.
I never heard of a Polish woman or a woman of any different nationality being released.
I never heard of a Polish woman or a woman of any different nationality being released.
I never heard of a Polish woman or a woman of any different nationality being released.
- What really interested me while reading this book was this: whether, while preparing to write this novel, reading all these materials, were you able to handle it?
- What really interested me while reading this book was this: whether, while preparing to write this novel, reading all these materials, were you able to handle it?
- What really interested me while reading this book was this: whether, while preparing to write this novel, reading all these materials, were you able to handle it?
- What really interested me while reading this book was this: whether, while preparing to write this novel, reading all these materials, were you able to handle it?
Were you ever psychologically overwhelmed and you thought: no, no, I can't write this after all I've found out?
Were you ever psychologically overwhelmed and you thought: no, no, I can't write this after all I've found out?
Were you ever psychologically overwhelmed and you thought: no, no, I can't write this after all I've found out?
Were you ever psychologically overwhelmed and you thought: no, no, I can't write this after all I've found out?
I admit that was certainly the case for the script that was created first: my screenplay.
I admit that was certainly the case for the script that was created first: my screenplay.
I spent a few months reading the journals and memoirs of women from Birkenau, from Auschwitz.
I spent a few months reading the journals and memoirs of women from Birkenau, from Auschwitz.
Those were hard months. Onerous… grueling reading, dreaming at night and a lot of time spent being depressed.
Those were hard months. Onerous… grueling reading, dreaming at night and a lot of time spent being depressed.
There's something in a writer's mental state where he must gain some distance from the subject at some point and I slowly got to this distance while writing the screenplay.
There's something in a writer's mental state where he must gain some distance from the subject at some point and I slowly got to this distance while writing the screenplay.
There's something in a writer's mental state where he must gain some distance from the subject at some point and I slowly got to this distance while writing the screenplay.
And then, when I wrote the book, I could refer to it, as well.
And then, when I wrote the book, I could refer to it, as well.
And then, when I wrote the book, I could refer to it, as well.
And then, when I wrote the book, I could refer to it, as well.
It still wasn't easy, but it was simply possible, of course, because you're right:
It still wasn't easy, but it was simply possible, of course, because you're right:
It still wasn't easy, but it was simply possible, of course, because you're right:
It still wasn't easy, but it was simply possible, of course, because you're right:
during this stage, I had doubts that might have run this script aground. This nightmare wouldn't block it.
during this stage, I had doubts that might have run this script aground. This nightmare wouldn't block it.
during this stage, I had doubts that might have run this script aground. This nightmare wouldn't block it.
during this stage, I had doubts that might have run this script aground. This nightmare wouldn't block it.
I was also very motivated by the fact that the next generations would seldom reach for those books from the past published a long time ago, from the '50s, '60s and '70s.
I was also very motivated by the fact that the next generations would seldom reach for those books from the past published a long time ago, from the '50s, '60s and '70s.
I was also very motivated by the fact that the next generations would seldom reach for those books from the past published a long time ago, from the '50s, '60s and '70s.
I was also very motivated by the fact that the next generations would seldom reach for those books from the past published a long time ago, from the '50s, '60s and '70s.
I was also very motivated by the fact that the next generations would seldom reach for those books from the past published a long time ago, from the '50s, '60s and '70s.
That collective memory about the camps exists among folks but people who read Kommando Puff say they don't think it was that nightmarish.
That collective memory about the camps exists among folks but people who read Kommando Puff say they don't think it was that nightmarish.
That collective memory about the camps exists among folks but people who read Kommando Puff say they don't think it was that nightmarish.
That collective memory about the camps exists among folks but people who read Kommando Puff say they don't think it was that nightmarish.
That collective memory about the camps exists among folks but people who read Kommando Puff say they don't think it was that nightmarish.
It means our collective memory has become blurred somewhere,
It means our collective memory has become blurred somewhere,
It means our collective memory has become blurred somewhere,
that it's worth it to future generations to remind themselves what it truly was and what is inherent in human nature, which is still possible, because let's not fool ourselves –
that it's worth it to future generations to remind themselves what it truly was and what is inherent in human nature, which is still possible, because let's not fool ourselves –
that it's worth it to future generations to remind themselves what it truly was and what is inherent in human nature, which is still possible, because let's not fool ourselves –
that it's worth it to future generations to remind themselves what it truly was and what is inherent in human nature, which is still possible, because let's not fool ourselves –
that it's worth it to future generations to remind themselves what it truly was and what is inherent in human nature, which is still possible, because let's not fool ourselves –
we can imagine another totalitarian regime that will open more camps and it will find, train and use people with psychopathic and sadistic tendencies to do the work that the SS did in the camps.
we can imagine another totalitarian regime that will open more camps and it will find, train and use people with psychopathic and sadistic tendencies to do the work that the SS did in the camps.
we can imagine another totalitarian regime that will open more camps and it will find, train and use people with psychopathic and sadistic tendencies to do the work that the SS did in the camps.
we can imagine another totalitarian regime that will open more camps and it will find, train and use people with psychopathic and sadistic tendencies to do the work that the SS did in the camps.
we can imagine another totalitarian regime that will open more camps and it will find, train and use people with psychopathic and sadistic tendencies to do the work that the SS did in the camps.
- There's one character who intrigued me very much:
- There's one character who intrigued me very much:
the SS man's mother who is trying to avoid pursuing the actual truth about her son, an SS officer in the camp.
the SS man's mother who is trying to avoid pursuing the actual truth about her son, an SS officer in the camp.
the SS man's mother who is trying to avoid pursuing the actual truth about her son, an SS officer in the camp.
the SS man's mother who is trying to avoid pursuing the actual truth of her son, an SS officer in the camp.
And here the question arises as to how much we can be stigmatized by our own loved ones' deeds.
And here the question arises as to how much we can be stigmatized by our own loved ones' deeds.
And here the question arises as to how much we can be stigmatized by our own loved ones' deeds.
Yes. No doubt, this is a difficult topic for anyone who has in the family a felon, a war criminal, someone who hurts others and so on.
Yes. No doubt, this is a difficult topic for anyone who has in the family a felon, a war criminal, someone who hurts others and so on.
Yes. No doubt, this is a difficult topic for anyone who has in the family a felon, a war criminal, someone who hurts others and so on.
I also wanted to portray the character of a person who was German but uninfected by Nazism.
I also wanted to portray the character of a person who was German but uninfected by Nazism.
I also wanted to portray the character of a person who was German but uninfected by Nazism.
She had nothing to do with it, like many, many Germans who were terrorized and didn't dare protest, or died protesting.
She had nothing to do with it, like many, many Germans who were terrorized and didn't dare protest, or died protesting.
She had nothing to do with it, like many, many Germans who were terrorized and didn't dare protest, or died protesting.
She had nothing to do with it, like many, many Germans who were terrorized and didn't dare protest, or died protesting.
They were also those like that and were sent to camps.
They were also those like that and were sent to camps.
They were also those like that and were sent to camps.
But they kept their minds awake and didn't participate in the Nazis' crimes.
But they kept their minds awake and didn't participate in the Nazis' crimes.
But they kept their minds awake and didn't participate in the Nazis' crimes.
I imagined a war criminal's mother who's attentive, who doesn't stop loving him, because it's hard to imagine a mother who stops feeling anything even for a son, who, let's say, commits murder.
I imagined a war criminal's mother who's attentive, who doesn't stop loving him, because it's hard to imagine a mother who stops feeling anything even for a son, who, let's say, commits murder.
I imagined a war criminal's mother who's attentive, who doesn't stop loving him, because it's hard to imagine a mother who stops feeling anything even for a son, who, let's say, commits murder.
I imagined a war criminal's mother who's attentive, who doesn't stop loving him, because it's hard to imagine a mother who stops feeling anything even for a son, who, let's say, commits murder.
I imagined a war criminal's mother who's attentive, who doesn't stop loving him, because it's hard to imagine a mother who stops feeling anything even for a son, who, let's say, commits murder.
She's still his mother and her hope that she will find something that will morally redeem him
She's still his mother and her hope that she will find something that will morally redeem him
She's still his mother and her hope that she will find something that will morally redeem him
She's still his mother and her hope that she will find something that will morally redeem him
– that will save him from the inevitable verdict, as depicted in this novel – is as natural as motherhood is basic, deep and unchangeable.
– that will save him from the inevitable verdict, as depicted in this novel – is as natural as motherhood is basic, deep and unchangeable.
– that will save him from the inevitable verdict, as depicted in this novel – is as natural as motherhood is basic, deep and unchangeable.
– that will save him from the inevitable verdict, as depicted in this novel – is as natural as motherhood is basic, deep and unchangeable.
And what she ends up learning about him causes her to feel increasingly lonely and more hopeless.
And what she ends up learning about him causes her to feel increasingly lonely and more hopeless.
And what she ends up learning about him causes her to feel increasingly lonely and more hopeless.
And what she ends up learning about him causes her to feel increasingly lonely and more hopeless.
She's in that situation and gets some reward at the end, as you know.
She's in that situation and gets some reward at the end, as you know.
She's in that situation and gets some reward at the end, as you know.
She's in that situation and gets some reward at the end, as you know.
So she was just as important to me as the young woman who finds herself in the camp.
So she was just as important to me as the young woman who finds herself in the camp.
So she was just as important to me as the young woman who finds herself in the camp.
So she was just as important to me as the young woman who finds herself in the camp.
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