♪ [THEME MUSIC] ♪
>>> HI, I'M BOB HERBERT, WELCOME
TO "OP-ED.TV."
THERE WERE TIMES IN AMERICA WHEN
POLITICS AND GOVERNMENT SEEMED A
LOT LESS CHAOTIC AND CRAZY THEN
THEY ARE TODAY.
IT WOULD HARD TO BE TO MAKE THE
CASE THEY WERE BETTER TIMES.
TERRIBLE WARS AND DEPRESSION AND
RACISM AND MISOGYNY THAN TODAY,
BUT AMERICANS COULD FEEL THEIR
COUNTRY STOOD FOR SOMETHING GOOD
AND POSITIVE, AND DESPITE THE
MYRIAD PROBLEMS, WE WERE ON OUR
WAY TO A BETTER FUTURE.
MY GUEST HAS WRITTEN A WONDERFUL
BOOK THAT CHRONICLES THOSE TIMES
VIA THE LIFE OF A MAN WHO PLAYED
AN OUTSIZED ROLE IN POLITICS,
GOVERNMENT, BIG BUSINESS, AND
EVEN HOLLYWOOD.
THE BOOK IS "THE PATRIARCH: THE
REMARKABLE LIFE AND TURBULENT
TIMES OF JOSEPH P. KENNEDY", AND
THE AUTHOR IS DAVID NASAW, A
DISTINGUISHED PROFESSOR OF
HISTORY RIGHT HERE AT THE CUNY
GRADUATE CENTER.
DAVID, WELCOME.
>> THANK YOU.
>> THANKS FOR COMING IN.
SO FOR THOSE WHO MAY NOT KNOW,
JOSEPH P. KENNEDY WAS THE FATHER
OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY,
BOBBY KENNEDY, AND THEIR
NUMEROUS SIBLINGS, AND WE'LL GET
INTO THE FAMILY A BIT MORE IN A
FEW MINUTES, BUT ONE OF THE
THINGS THAT STANDS OUT IN YOUR
BOOK, ONE OF MANY THINGS, IS HOW
SERIOUS THE MAJOR POLITICAL
LEADERS WERE AT ONE TIME IN
THEIR APPROACH TO PUBLIC
MATTERS.
I MEAN, THEIR WILLINGNESS TO
STUDY AND UNDERSTAND THE ISSUES,
AND AS YOU HAD MENTIONED IN
ANOTHER CONTEXT, THEIR SENSE OF
MORAL PURPOSE.
THAT'S A REAL CONTRAST IT SEEMS
TO ME WITH WHAT WE SEE AS THE
POLITICAL DISCOURSE OF TODAY.
CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT
THAT?
>> YEAH.
I THINK POLITICS TODAY IS BECOME
ALMOST A SPORTING GAME WITH A
WINNER AND A LOSER, AND YOU HAVE
TO MAKE SNAP DECISIONS, AND
BASED ON WHETHER YOU'RE GOING TO
BE THE WINNER OR THE LOSER.
POLITICS 40 YEARS AGO, 50 YEARS
AGO, 70 YEARS AGO, WAS A MORE
SERIOUS AND MORE DEDICATED
PROFESSION.
OF COURSE, THERE WERE IDIOTS,
THERE WERE CHARLATANS, THERE
WERE SCOUNDRELS.
>> NO QUESTION.
>> BUT THE PEOPLE WHO GOT TO THE
TOP, WHETHER YOU AGREE WITH THEM
OR DISAGREE WITH THEM, THEY
WORKED HARD.
AND THEY HAD SORT OF A MORAL
BEARING.
THEY WANTED TO MAKE THE CITY,
THE STATE, THE NATION A BETTER
PLACE AFTER THEIR TERM OF OFFICE
THAN BEFORE.
>> WHEN I FIRST BECAME AWARE OF
JOE KENNEDY WAS WHEN JACK
KENNEDY WAS RUNNING FOR
PRESIDENT IN 1960, AND THAT'S
WHEN THE KENNEDY FAMILY BURST ON
THE SCENE.
THEY WERE GLAMOROUS, THEY WERE
BEAUTIFUL, THEY WERE CHARISMATIC
AND THAT SORT OF THING AND JOE
WAS KIND OF LURKING IN THE
BACKGROUND.
ALMOST IT SEEMED LIKE KIND OF AN
OGREISH FIGURE.
YOU READ YOUR BOOK AND YOU FIND
OUT THAT THE JOE KENNEDY FOR
MOST OF HIS LIFE WAS REALLY
NOTHING LIKE THAT.
THAT HE WAS THIS DYNAMIC,
CHARISMATIC FIGURE.
SO CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT
ABOUT THE JOE KENNEDY THAT WAS
FOR MOST OF HIS LIFE AND THE JOE
KENNEDY THAT SEEMED TO BE
LURKING IN THE BACKGROUND AND
HAD THIS OGREISH WAY ABOUT HIM
IN THE EARLY 1960s?
>> TED KENNEDY, WHEN I WAS DOING
MY RESEARCH FOR THIS, TOLD ME
THAT HIS FATHER HAD THE CAPACITY
TO WALK INTO A ROOM AND WHOEVER
WAS THERE, WHETHER IT WAS THE
CHURCH, BIG BUSINESSMEN, WHETHER
IT WAS POLITICAL LEADERS,
WHETHER IT WAS STATESMEN FROM
EUROPEAN NATIONS, HE WOULD
BECOME THE CENTER OF ATTENTION.
>> WOW.
>> HE HAD A CHARISMA, HE HAD A
CONCENTRATION, HE HAD AN
INTELLIGENCE, HE HAD A WIT, HE
HAD A BEARING.
HE WAS TALL WITH PERFECT,
PERFECT POSTURE.
HE HAD A SMILE THAT WOULD LIGHT
UP A ROOM, AND HE HAD A RUTHLESS
SENSE OF PURPOSE.
WHEN HE WALKED INTO THE ROOM,
THE ROOM WOULD LIGHT UP.
WHEN HE WOULD WALK OUT, HE WOULD
BECOME SOMEWHAT OF A DIFFERENT
PERSON.
HE SUCCEEDED IN EVERYTHING HE
DID, EVERYTHING, EXCEPT
BASEBALL.
HE WANTED TO BE ON THE HARVARD
BASEBALL TEAM AND COULDN'T HIT A
CURVEBALL AND WAS TOO SLOW.
BUT ONCE HE GOT OVER THAT, IN
BUSINESS, IN POLITICS, NOT AS AN
ELECTED OFFICIAL, BUT AS A MAN
BEHIND THE SCENES.
EVERYTHING HE WANTED TO DO HE
GOT DONE.
>> NOW, ONE OF THE MYTHS THAT
YOU VERSED WAS THE IDEA THAT JOE
KENNEDY WAS A BOOTLEGGER AND
THAT'S HOW HE MADE MOST OF HIS
MONEY.
HE WAS NOT A BOOTLEGGER, I FOUND
OUT READING YOUR BOOK, BUT HE
WAS ONE OF THE RICHEST MEN IN
AMERICA.
HOW DID HE MAKE HIS MONEY?
>> HE MADE HIS MONEY BY BUYING,
SELLING, MANIPULATING STOCKS.
HE WAS A GENIUS AT IT.
WHEN HE WENT OUT TO HOLLYWOOD,
YOU KNOW, THIS IS AN OVERLOOKED
PART OF HIS LIFE.
HE WENT TO HOLLYWOOD, HE RAN TWO
OR THREE OR FOUR OF THE MAJOR
STUDIOS OUT THERE.
AND HE DEMANDED TO BE PAID IN
STOCK OPTIONS AND EXPENSE
ACCOUNTS.
HE'D GET BIG EXPENSE ACCOUNTS,
REASONABLE SALARY, AND HUGE
STOCK OPTIONS, WHICH HE DROVE
THE PRICE OF THOSE STOCKS UP AND
DOWN AND SIDEWAYS AND MADE A
FORTUNE OUT OF IT.
>> RIGHT.
>> WHEN HE BECAME -- ROOSEVELT
NAMED HIM AS THE FIRST CHAIRMAN
OF THE S.E.C., THE SECURITIES
AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION, TO
REGULATE THE STOCK MARKET.
WHY?
BECAUSE AFTER THE CRASH,
AMERICANS WEREN'T PUTTING MONEY
IN THE STOCK MARKET.
IF THEY DON'T PUT MONEY INTO THE
STOCK MARKET, THE ECONOMY CAN'T
MOVE FORWARD.
SO HE PUTS JOE KENNEDY AS THE
CHAIRMAN OF THE S.E.C., AND WHAT
DOES JOE DO?
HE OUTLAWS EVERY ONE OF THE
TRICKS AND GIMMICKS HE HAD USED
TO MAKE HIS MONEY, AND FROM THE
MID-'30s ON, MOVED HIS MONEY OUT
OF THE STOCK MARKET TO REAL
ESTATE.
>> ONE OF THE BIGGEST THINGS,
MAYBE THE BIGGEST THING ABOUT
JOE KENNEDY THAT CAME ACROSS TO
ME FROM THE BOOK, WAS THE
INTENSITY OF HIS LOVE FOR HIS
FAMILY, AND ESPECIALLY FOR HIS
CHILDREN.
IT SEEMED LIKE EVEN WITH ALL THE
SUCCESS HE HAD AND EVERYTHING
THAT HE WAS SO GOOD AT, IT ALL
EVENTUALLY WOULD COME BACK TO
HIS KIDS.
THAT WAS THE THING IT SEEMED TO
ME THAT HE LIVED FOR.
CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THAT?
>> WHEN I BEGAN WORK ON THIS
BOOK, I INTERVIEWED THE CHILDREN
WHO WERE ALIVE AT THE TIME.
IN LARGE PART EUNICE AND GENE
KENNEDY AND TED, AND THEY ALL
WENT OVERBOARD WITH PRAISE AND
LOVE FOR THEIR FATHER, AND I
DIDN'T GET IT.
I THOUGHT THEY WERE FEEDING ME
SOMETHING.
AS I DID MY RESEARCH.
AND AS I LOOKED AT THE LETTERS
BACK AND FORTH AND THE
INTERVIEWS, IT WAS TRUE.
JOE -- FOR JOE KENNEDY, FAMILY
CAME FIRST.
EVERY DOLLAR HE EARNED, HE
EARNED SO THAT HIS CHILDREN
WOULDN'T HAVE TO WORK.
HIS NOTION WAS I'M GOING TO
BECOME A MILLIONAIRE, I'M GOING
TO PUT THAT MONEY INTO TRUST
FUNDS, AND MY CHILDREN CAN GO
INTO PUBLIC SERVICE.
MY CHILDREN WILL NOT HAVE TO
EARN MONEY.
THEY CAN DO BETTER THAN ME IN
TERMS OF SERVING THE PUBLIC.
>> AND THAT SENSE OF PUBLIC
SERVICE TOOK THESE KIDS, EVEN
THE ONES WHO WERE NOT AS FAMOUS
AS JACK OR BOBBY OR TED, THEY
DEVOTED LARGE SEGMENTS OF THEIR
LIVES TO ONE FORM OF PUBLIC
SERVICE OR ANOTHER.
>> IT'S ABSOLUTELY REMARKABLE.
YOU LOOK AT EVERY OTHER
POLITICAL DYNASTY, EVERYONE,
ROOSEVELT, BUSH'S, WHEREVER YOU
WANT TO LOOK, THE CHILDREN GO
INTO BUSINESS.
THEY USE THE CONNECTIONS THEY'VE
MADE TO MAKE THEIR OWN FORTUNES.
NOT THE KENNEDYS.
>> RIGHT.
>> NOT THE KENNEDYS.
EVERY ONE OF THE CHILDREN, MALES
AND THE FEMALES, GO INTO SOME
FORM OF PUBLIC SERVICE.
AND THAT CARRIES OVER INTO THE
NEXT GENERATION.
IT'S REMARKABLE.
AND THAT COMES FROM JOE.
>> NOW, THE DARK CLOUD OVER THE
LIFE OF JOE KENNEDY WAS THE
ANTI-SEMITISM, HIS WILLINGNESS
TO APPEASE HITLER, ESPECIALLY
WHEN HE WAS THE AMBASSADOR TO
THE COURT OF ST. JAMES IN THE
YEARS LEADING UP TO WORLD WAR
II.
HIS DEFEATISM, EVEN DURING THE
WAR IT SEEMS TO ME, AND IT
STRUCK ME AS ODD, OUT OF
CHARACTER, FOR THIS GUY WHO HAD
SUCH A CAN-DO SPIRIT, WHO IN SO
MANY WAYS HAD BEEN SO
OPTIMISTIC, BELIEVED IN HIMSELF
AND THAT SORT OF THING.
WHAT'S YOUR TAKE ON THAT?
WHERE DID ALL OF THAT COME FROM?
>> YEAH.
I THINK KENNEDY WAS A REALIST,
AND WHEN HE WENT TO EUROPE AS
THE AMBASSADOR TO THE COURT OF
ST. JAMES, A BRILLIANT MOVE BY
ROOSEVELT TO SEND AN IRISHMAN TO
REPRESENT THE UNITED STATES IN
LONDON, HE HAD A SENSE THAT THE
BRITISH WERE AN OLD, DESICCATED
NATION OF PEOPLE WHO HAD LOST
THEIR VITALITY.
AND THE GERMANS WERE ON THE
MOVE, AND HE WAS ABSOLUTELY
CONVINCED THAT IN A WAR BETWEEN
GERMANY AND GREAT BRITAIN, THE
GERMANS WOULD WIN EASILY.
NOW, HE WAS RIGHT, OF COURSE.
>> RIGHT.
>> GERMANS LOST BECAUSE THE
SOVIETS CAME INTO THE WAR.
>> RIGHT.
>> AND KENNEDY DIDN'T SEE THAT.
KENNEDY DID NOT WANT A WORLD WAR
IN WHICH THE BRITISH WERE
DEFEATED.
HE DID NOT WANT A WORLD WAR IN
WHICH THE AMERICANS HAD TO COME
IN TO PROTECT IT AND TO SAVE THE
BRITISH, BECAUSE HE FIGURED ONE
WAY OR ANOTHER, WHETHER AMERICA
LOST OR WON, AND HE WAS PRETTY
CONVINCED IT WOULD WIN IN THE
LONG RUN, THE ECONOMY WOULD BE
DESTROYED.
AND EVERYTHING HE HAD STRUGGLED
FOR WOULD BE LOST.
BUT MORE THAN THAT, MORE THAN
THAT, AMERICAN DEMOCRACY, HE
BELIEVED, RESTED ON A SAFE,
SECURE, AND JUST CAPITALISM.
>> AND IF THAT CAPITALISM WAS
LOST OR UNDERMINED, FASCISM OR
SOMETHING SIMILAR WOULD RESULT.
>> YOU GOT TO LOOK AT THE WORLD
IN 1930.
>> RIGHT.
>> ITALY, SPAIN, GERMANY, SOVIET
UNION, MOST OF EASTERN EUROPE
HAD GONE FASCIST.
THERE WAS A STRONG RIGHT-WING
MOVEMENT IN FRANCE, AND THERE
WAS MOSTLY IN GREAT BRITAIN.
AND WHAT GOES FIRST, KENNEDY
BELIEVES, IS THE ECONOMY.
THE GOVERNMENT MOVES IN TO
REGULATE THE ECONOMY IN WAR, AND
THAT IS THE FIRST STEP AWAY FROM
DEMOCRACY AND TOWARDS SOME FORM
OF FASCISM.
AND KENNEDY WAS CONVINCED THAT
THAT WAS THE WAY THIS COUNTRY
WAS GOING TO GO.
>> YOU CAN'T TALK ABOUT THE
KENNEDYS WITHOUT TALKING ABOUT
THE TERRIBLE TRAGEDIES THAT
BEFELL THAT FAMILY.
SO, AND EVEN IF YOU LIVED
THROUGH ALL THE NEWS, IT'S STILL
ASTOUNDING WHEN YOU LOOK BACK ON
IT.
SO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT.
>> LET ME ANSWER THE QUESTION I
DIDN'T ANSWER, THEN I'LL GO INTO
THAT.
THE ANTI-SEMITISM QUESTION.
>> RIGHT.
>> IN DOING THIS WORK ABOUT AN
IRISH-CATHOLIC FROM BOSTON, WHO
ENDS UP IN WASHINGTON, THE
QUESTION THAT I BELIEVE HAD TO
BE ANSWERED WAS NOT WAS JOE
KENNEDY AN ANTI-SEMITE, BUT WHAT
KIND OF AN ANTI-SEMITE WAS HE?
IT WAS ONE OF THE MORE
DISTRESSING LESSONS I LEARNED IN
WHAT WENT ON IN WASHINGTON,
PARTICULARLY IN THE STATE
DEPARTMENT AND IN THIS NATION,
PRIOR TO, LEADING UP TO WORLD
WAR II, AND IMMEDIATELY
AFTERWARDS, ANTI-SEMITISM WAS IN
THE AIR.
IT WAS IN THE ENVIRONMENT.
IT WAS THE PERSON WHO WAS NOT AN
ANTI-SEMITE IN WASHINGTON WAS
THE EXCEPTION.
JOE KENNEDY WAS NOT ONE OF THOSE
EXCEPTIONS.
HE WAS NOT A VIRULENT FATHER
COUGHLIN ANTI-SEMITE, BUT HE
BELIEVED THAT THE JEWS WERE A
DIFFERENT RACE OF PEOPLE WITH
DIFFERENT QUALITIES AND ONE HAD
TO LOOK OUT FOR THEM BECAUSE
THEY WERE NOT -- THEIR FIRST
LOYALTY WAS NOT TO THE UNITED
STATES OF AMERICA.
>> THAT TAINTED, OF COURSE, HIS
ENTIRE CAREER GOING FORWARD.
HE BECAME KNOWN IF NOT PRIMARILY
FOR THE ANTI-SEMITISM, HE BECAME
KNOWN AS AN APPEASER, WHICH IN
POST WORLD WAR II PERIOD WAS A
TERRIBLE THING TO HAVE BEEN,
ALTHOUGH YOU MAKE IT CLEAR IN
YOUR BOOK THAT IN THE INITIAL
STAGES OF THE APPEASEMENT OF
HITLER, HOW MANY OF THE HEADS OF
STATES WERE HAPPY WITH
CHAMBERLAIN AND THE APPEASING
THAT WAS GOING ON.
>> YEAH.
NOBODY WANTED -- THERE HAD JUST
BEEN A WORLD WAR, THE MOST
VICIOUS WAR THAT EUROPE HAD EVER
SEEN, AND THAT WAR WAS OVER IN
1918, AND NOW WE'RE IN 1938, 20
YEARS LATER, 1939, NOBODY WANTED
A WAR.
AND NOBODY WANTED A WAR WITH
HITLER ALIGNED WITH MOUSILLINI
AND WHO KNEW WHERE STALIN WAS
GOING TO GO.
NO ONE WANTED A WAR.
KENNEDY WAS ONLY ONE OF THOSE
WHO TRIED TO FIND A WAY OUT OF
THE WAR.
KENNEDY WAS NOT IN THE MINORITY.
WHAT HAPPENS IS WHEN IT BECOMES
CLEAR YOU CAN'T MAKE A DEAL WITH
HITLER, THAT THIS IS A MADMAN,
KENNEDY CONTINUES TO INSIST,
BECAUSE KENNEDY IS A BUSINESSMAN
AND A MAN WHO'S MADE DEALS. HE
SAYS LEAVE IT TO ME, I'LL MAKE A
DEAL WITH HITLER.
>> SO TALK ABOUT THE TERRIBLE
SEQUENCE OF TRAGEDIES THAT
BEFELL THE KENNEDYS.
>> YEAH, THE CURSE OF THE
KENNEDYS.
YOU KNOW, AFTER DOING ALL THIS
WORK AND MEETING KENNEDYS, I'VE
COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT THEY
SORT OF THINK THEY ARE
INVINCIBLE, YOU KNOW, THAT
NOTHING CAN DESTROY THEM.
IF YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THE
DEATHS, THEY WERE AVOIDABLE.
JOE KENNEDY JR. DIDN'T HAVE TO
GET AND VOLUNTEER FOR A BOMBER
RUN ACROSS THE ENGLISH CHANNEL
AT THE END OF THE WAR
IN A CAMPAIGN THAT WAS BOUND
TO END IN HIM BLOWING UP.
HE WAS IN PLANE.
THE PLANE WAS OVERLOADED WITH
EXPLOSIVES.
HE WAS SUPPOSED TO FLY THE
PLANE, BAIL OUT BEFORE THE PLANE
LANDED AND EXPLODED.
WELL, IT EXPLODED WHILE HE WAS
STILL IN IT.
HIS SISTER, KICK, KATHLEEN, GOT
INTO A PLANE WITH HER BOYFRIEND
IN A TERRIBLE STORM WHEN THE
PILOT SAID I DON'T WANT TO FLY
IN FRANCE.
>> RIGHT.
>> JOHN JOHN KENNEDY FLEW --
>> WITH HIS WIFE AND
SISTER-IN-LAW.
I ALWAYS THINK ABOUT THE POOR
FAMILY THAT LOST BOTH OF THEIR
DAUGHTERS IN THAT CRASH.
>> AND AGAIN, HE TOOK RISKS THAT
HE DIDN'T HAVE TO TAKE.
SO THEY HAD THIS FEELING THAT
THEY ARE GOLDEN, THAT THEY ARE
IMMORTAL.
AND THEY TAKE THESE DREADFUL
RISKS.
THERE ARE OTHER THINGS THEY
COULDN'T HELP.
>> ROSEMARY.
>> ROSEMARY.
TALK ABOUT ROSEMARY A BIT.
>> SHE IS A SAD, SAD STORY.
>> OLDEST DAUGHTER, WASN'T SHE?
>> OLDEST DAUGHTER, THIRD OLDEST
CHILD.
SHE WAS BORN PROBABLY BECAUSE IT
WAS A DELAYED DELIVERY WITH A
LEVEL OF RETARDATION, WHICH
MEANT SHE WOULD NEVER DEVELOP
INTELLECTUAL SKILLS ABOVE THAT
OF A 5 YEAR OLD.
>> IN THIS VERY DYNAMIC FAMILY.
>> WELL, SHE COULDN'T-
AS LONG AS HER
BROTHERS AND SISTERS WERE
AROUND, SHE DIDN'T UNDERSTAND
WHAT SHE COULDN'T DO.
BECAUSE THEY WOULD PLAY TENNIS
WITH HER, THEY WOULD TAKE HER
SAILING.
THEY WOULD TAKE HER TO SCHOOL
DANCES.
THEY LOVED HER.
BUT AS THE KIDS GOT OLDER AND
LEFT THE HOUSE, SHE WAS LEFT
ALONE.
>> RIGHT.
>> AND SHE BEGAN TO UNDERSTAND.
SHE PUT ON WEIGHT.
SHE BECAME SORT OF LARGE AND
DUMPY LOOKING, UNLIKE THE SVELTE
KENNEDYS, AND SHE COULDN'T GO
OUT.
SHE HAD NO BOYFRIEND, SHE HAD NO
FRIENDS, SHE COULDN'T GO FOR A
WALK.
SHE COULDN'T GO SAILING.
>> SO JOE--
>> WONDERFUL WOMAN, YOU KNOW,
YOUNG WOMAN, BECAME ANGRIER AND
ANGRIER AND ANGRIER.
AND JOE, WHO ALWAYS SOUGHT OUT
THE BEST MEDICAL ADVICE, WENT TO
THE DOCTORS.
AND THE DOCTOR SAID WE'VE GOT
THE PERFECT THING, IT'S CALLED A
LOBOTOMY.
WE'RE NOT GOING TO MAKE HER-
IMPROVE THE RETARDATION, BUT
SHE'LL BE HAPPY FOR THE REST OF
HER LIFE.
>> SHE WON'T HAVE THE SAME SENSE
OF ANGER ABOUT HER?
>> SHE WON'T HAVE ANXIETIES, SHE
WON'T HAVE FEARS, SHE WON'T HAVE
THIS ANGER.
AND JOE WENT TO JOHNS HOPKINS
WITH A YALE-TRAINED
NEUROSURGEON, AND THEY DID THE
OPERATION, AND IT WAS A
DISASTER.
AN ABSOLUTE DISASTER.
>> SHE WAS THEN
INSTITUTIONALIZED THE REST OF
HER LIFE.
>> IF THERE WAS A VILLAIN, IT
WASN'T JOE KENNEDY.
WHY DIDN'T JOE CONSULT ROSE?
BECAUSE ALL OF THE TEXTBOOKS,
THE GUIDEBOOKS, EVERYBODY AT THE
TIME SAID WOMEN CAN'T BE TRUSTED
TO MAKE LIFE AND DEATH DECISIONS
ABOUT THEIR CHILDREN.
WOMEN ARE SENTIMENTAL AND
EMOTIONAL.
THE GUY HAS TO MAKE THE
DECISION.
>> WE ONLY HAVE A COUPLE MINUTES
LEFT, AND I'D LIKE TO TOUCH ON
THE ISSUE OF JACK RUNNING FOR
PRESIDENT.
HE'S THE FIRST -- WELL, HE
BECAME ULTIMATELY THE FIRST
CATHOLIC PRESIDENT.
WASN'T THE FIRST CATHOLIC TO RUN
FOR PRESIDENT.
BUT WHEN HE RAN, THE FAMILY AND
JOE ESPECIALLY BELIEVED THERE
WOULD BE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF
ANTI-CATHOLIC PREJUDICE
AGAINST THIS CANDIDACY BUT
THEY ALSO BELIEVED THAT THERE
WOULD ALSO BE THIS
TREMENDOUS PRIDE
AMONG CATHOLICS
AND THAT WOULD DRIVE UP THE
TURNOUT AMONG CATHOLICS.
WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED?
>> THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, HEADED
BY CARDINAL SPELLMAN OF NEW
YORK, WAS UNALTERABLY OPPOSED TO
A KENNEDY RUN.
THEY BELIEVED THE WORST THING
THAT COULD HAPPEN TO THE CHURCH
WAS THE STRIKING YOUNG HANDSOME
MAN WOULD BECOME THE MOST FAMOUS
CATHOLIC IN THE COUNTRY, NUMBER
ONE.
NUMBER TWO, THEY KNEW THAT A
CATHOLIC PRESIDENT COULDN'T
PURSUE THEIR MAIN AIM AT THE
TIME, WHICH WAS FUNDING FOR
CATHOLIC SCHOOLS.
AND THEY WERE VIOLENTLY,
VEHEMENTLY ANTI-COMMUNISTS.
KENNEDY WAS ANTI-COMMUNIST
BUT NOT AS ANTI-COMMUNIST AS
RICHARD MILHOUSE NIXON, SO THE
CHURCH DID EVERYTHING IT COULD
TO PUSH THE NIXON CANDIDACY.
>> WOW.
>> IT WAS A DISASTER.
JOE KENNEDY WAS INCENSED.
HE CUT OFF ALL RELATIONSHIPS
WITH THE CHURCH, HE NEVER SAW
SPELLMAN AGAIN, HE NEVER GAVE
MONEY TO THE CHURCH, AND FOR
KENNEDY, THE GREATEST
DISAPPOINTMENT IN HIS LIFE, HE
KNEW THAT HE WAS NOT GOING TO BE
PRESIDENT, BECAUSE HE WAS AN
IRISH CATHOLIC.
>> AND HE HAD WANTED JOE TO
BECOME PRESIDENT, JOE JUNIOR HAD
BEEN KILLED.
>> NOW JACK RUNS FOR PRESIDENT
AND KENNEDY BELIEVES THAT THERE
WILL BE PUSHBACK, ANTI-CATHOLIC
FEELINGS, BUT NEVER TO THE
EXTENT THAT THERE WAS.
WHEN THE ELECTION IS OVER,
REPORTERS LOOK AT JOE KENNEDY,
WHY ISN'T THIS MAN SMILING?
WASN'T SMILING BECAUSE HIS SON
GOT 49.7% OF THE VOTE.
IF YOU TALLIED UP ALL THE
DEMOCRATS WHO RAN FOR THE
SENATE, THEY GOT 55% OF THE
VOTE.
IN THE HOUSE THEY GOT 55% OF THE
VOTE.
WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT 5% OF
DEMOCRATIC VOTE?
WELL, JOE KENNEDY KNEW THAT THIS
FEELING OF ANTICATHOLICISM WAS
STRONG AND IT ALMOST DEFEATED
HIS SON.
>> I WISH WE HAD MORE TIME.
THANK YOU SO MUCH, DAVID NASAW.
THE BOOK IS "THE PATRIARCH: THE
REMARKABLE LIFE AND TURBULENT
TIMES OF JOSEPH P. KENNEDY".
>> THANK YOU.
>> WE'LL BE BACK IN A MOMENT
WITH A FINAL WORD.
>>> THERE IS SO MUCH TOXIC
CRAZINESS COMING OUT OF THE
TRUMP ADMINISTRATION THAT IT'S
HARD TO KEEP YOUR FOCUS.
ONE EPISODE THAT GOT A GREAT
DEAL OF ATTENTION WAS UNCOVERED
BY "THE WASHINGTON POST."
THE TRUMP GANG TOLD OFFICIALS AT
THE CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL
AND PREVENTION
THAT THEY COULD NOT USE
CERTAIN WORDS OR PHRASES IN THE
DOCUMENTS THEY WERE COMPILING
FOR THE CENTER'S 2018 BUDGET.
AMONG THE TERMS BANNED AT THE
NATION'S TOP PUBLIC HEALTH
AGENCY WERE FETUS, TRANSGENDER,
VULNERABLE, DIVERSITY, AND
SCIENCE-BASED.
DONALD TRUMP'S MINIONS DIDN'T
STOP THERE.
THEY OFFERED SOME ALTERNATIVES
TO THE BANNED LANGUAGE.
INSTEAD OF SCIENCE-BASED, FOR
EXAMPLE, THE CENTER'S OFFICIALS
WERE URGED TO SAY "THE CDC BASES
ITS RECOMMENDATIONS ON SCIENCE
IN CONSIDERATION WITH COMMUNITY
STANDARDS AND WISHES."
CAN YOU BELIEVE IT?
SCIENCE BASED ON WISHES.
FOR THOSE WHO DON'T KNOW IT,
THAT IS THE STUFF OF
TOTALITARIANISM.
HOW DO YOU WORK TO STOP THE
SPREAD OF TUBERCULOSIS, VIRAL
HEPATITIS, HIV AND AIDS, OR
BIRTH DEFECTS CAUSED BY THE ZIKA
VIRUS IF THE PEOPLE DOING THE
WORK ARE BARRED FROM TERMS LIKE
VULNERABLE, FETUS, TRANSGENDER,
OR SCIENCE-BASED?
ONCE AN UPROAR ERUPTED, THE
TRUMP ADMINISTRATION SAID THIS
EPISODE WAS MISCHARACTERIZED.
I DON'T THINK SO.
I TRUST "THE POST" REPORTING.
THIS IS, INDEED, A PUBLIC HEALTH
ISSUE.
IT'S MUCH LARGER THAN THE
CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL.
WE SHOULD ALL BE LOOKING AT THE
SICKNESS THAT DONALD TRUMP HAS
BROUGHT TO THE VERY SOUL OF THIS
GREAT COUNTRY OF OURS.
THAT'S ALL FOR NOW.
SEE YOU NEXT TIME.
♪ [THEME MUSIC] ♪
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