First, I'd like to ask if you as an architect have some personal creed?
Like: This is the architecture I believe in.
Architecture is a gradually vanishing thing,
a vanishing way
of influencing and creating the world,
in which I really believe, I'm just sad that it's vanishing.
In these times.
My creed is very simple.
I think that buildings should be made beautiful,
in the way that literally everyone will like them.
But it mustn't be done in a way
that one does
stupid ornaments, the concessions,
the pandering things.
When the things are done with full, hard commitment,
and yet the people come and say:
Wow, that's nice.
Then I'm glad.
Because modern architecture doesn't achieve that.
Mostly.
I think that it could even be said that functionalism
destroyed architecture for ordinary people.
It ended it.
The leftist doctrinaires who promoted it,
they saw a human with a Stalinist eye.
As a little cogwheel identical with all the other cogwheels in the great gear of the world.
And also…
Those panel houses over there,
they're made this way.
This destroyed architecture,
and that I can't forgive them.
If such a leftist dandy like Le Corbusier were here now,
I would do nothing more gladly than kick his butt.
So, your conception of architecture is a fight;
you're sort of an activist architect?
It could be said so because I am…
I am an anarchist, I am a man who likes freedom,
who can work only in liberal conditions,
which I'm trying to achieve at all cost…
Activist, however, is another word
of the contemporary language that is very much strange to me.
It's kind of sad to me when someone calls me that.
When I read your book, you've said there that you are a libertarian, an anarchist,
so you are committed to a conviction, that is connected to liberty.
But from the right-wing point of view. Yes, to liberty.
So, what seems interesting to me and the reason why I'm glad we stand here together,
is that for you, the architecture… -I'm glad too.
…architecture is actually a political issue, isn't it?
By architecture, you – for example, when we're standing here next to this tower,
which is substantially completely different than those panel houses.
In the way it looks, in the way it's airy and transparent,
while the prefabricated buildings are those enclosed blocks – but also in the materials it's built from.
This wood…
The difference lies far more profound.
This building draws from those magical capacities of nature,
of the universe, and our brain to create forms.
While panel houses stick to a very trivial, simple political doctrine,
which describes people and the world
in a very rough and simple way
and treats them accordingly.
It's not a coincidence that, for example,
the floor plans of Dachau concentration camp and Červený vrch housing estate
are very similar.
They also contain a similar mentality.
And many leftist doctrinaires, who are still alive,
supporting what they call modernism,
that is things, which are against the human desire
of individuality, the human desire
of a magical world, the human desire of freedom.
All that is suppressed.
We're trying to do the opposite.
So, it from the essence, not just the material or the transparency.
It's about our way of thinking about architecture,
which is free,
which offers to people forms renewed again, anchored in nature.
If I may ask – do you think that this happened
during one of your last realisations,
that is when you've built the observation tower in Jerusalem?
-Do you mean Esterka? -Ester, yes.
I'm asking, because…
The way I understand anarchism, one thing that is so important in it for me is,
that it's very suspicious towards everything that comes from the state
as power or from some great structure, standing above people.
I have to admit, that this is sympathetic to me too.
Yet it seems to me that this was a commission from the state?
-Not at all. -Czech–Israeli?
-You're misinformed. -Then inform me better.
Lukáš Přibyl, the boss of the Czech Centre in Israel,
managed to get an opportunity to build a tower in the centre of Jerusalem,
which, however, won't give the impression of a building, but that of an artefact.
He called me and said: Are we doing it?
I'm sure people will contribute money. Come on.
So I went, I borrowed three million [around 116 thousand euro],
and we started doing it.
The state came along when it was being opened.
You think that a state did this?
Both the Israel and Czech states
have done everything possible to prevent it's making.
So yes…
Privately, it cost us a hell of money,
we much of it paid by ourselves.
And aren't you upset that it looks like this now
when the institutions claimed it as if it was actually built on a commission?
That it isn't the thing that came from you, and from the people you arranged it with?
The state makes me mad practically with everything it does.
All of its institutions are making me angry – all, from schools to prisons, army, you name it.
So, I was expecting that they'll do something like this.
So I can't say this is what makes me mad the most.
I think that Babiš and Zeman are making me mad much more,
than this band of
not exactly wonderful politics,
who are helping themselves in this miserable little way.
You use simplicity as your primary instrument, simplicity is what you are after…
But I have to admit,
that simplicity in Israel seems to me as a lie.
There's nothing simple there.
To call a lie something that
– if you look for it thoroughly,
you still find it.
There's a lot of things going on in Israel,
that can be described simply, by a simple method.
It has detectable results,
and it's often about a search for freedom,
search for human integrity,
and that's what I admire about Israel.
As usual, it's connected with loads of
contradictory things,
which can make people sick
as I am sick from all sorts of regimes,
including ours.
But still…
a certain spirit that reigns in Israel
is very close to me,
and I admire it.
I have to admit,
that this is one thing about Israel that I was thinking of.
Because on the one side, I understand,
and I think you mentioned that in some interview or documentary film,
that this is a quality that you respect in Israelis – a kind of courage.
At the same time, this courage
ends for me when freedom of others is violated.
And I'm not talking just about Arabs and Christians etc.,
who are forced to live in some isolated islands,
or who are even treated with disdain at the checkpoints
if we're talking only about everyday interpersonal behaviour.
That is a thing I wasn't able to deal with in the Near East.
On the one hand, these people are tenacious
and were beaten up a lot throughout the history,
on the other hand, they are the ones who are doing the beating now.
Not quite, not at all.
You haven't lived in an unfree system.
I was born and since my school years
I was treated as a second-class human by the regime.
I was in Czechia what Arab is now in Israel.
The fact that both of my parents
– or all four grandmothers, grandathers
– were of bourgeois background made me
a socially utterly unacceptable person.
A lot of things was denied to me by default.
So, from this point of view,
contemporary Israel is
an infinitely more liberal country, even for the Arabs,
than Czechoslovakia has been for us,
even as ordinary citizens,
who weren't implying in every gesture
that they'd gladly cut their throats.
We probably won't agree on this topic.
It would probably be an interesting talk with you on this topic,
but we are here for the architecture…
I'd like you to know, that I don't agree with you on this matter at all.
But we'll leave it.
For me, the difference between architecture and, let's say, poetry, in these times
– it's sort of artistic, though different –
is that the architect actually always has a commissioner, a client.
That is if he doesn't build it on his property as you did.
But there is always someone, for whom he's doing it and who pays it.
So I'm interested, where your boundaries are, what you would not do in the architecture.
There are many projects per month I wouldn't do at any cost.
There are projects I know
to be detrimental in their very essence.
Could you give an example?
You see, I'm a practising architect…
-Like a model case… -Model case.
There are certain buildings
which support some disgusting human vices.
Like appetitive instinct, for example.
They are called shopping malls.
For long I've been trying to get as far as possible from these things,
that I myself was making at young and middle age
because this isn't my world.
There were these businessmen
when we were working with the Compagnie Générale des Eaux,
one of the biggest kinks on the Earth,
who got rich with frauds and state commissions
for water pipes…
We were doing Nový Smíchov for them.
I told them later – you know what, I'm done.
Screw it, I won't do this,
god damn you all to hell.
But, because I made relatively decent money…
I'm not one of those people
with an aversion to money,
I'm not in a mendicant sect.
So I had enough money to loaf around the world,
and I didn't have to deal with these people at all any more.
That's how it is.
So, you say that you are a right-wing libertarian and anarchist,
yet you don't actually trust the trade – not really.
For you, shopping malls are a place… -I don't believe
that there's anything sacred about
people getting mediocre, inferior goods for their hard-won money.
Do you have some water?
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